Fool me, this is real good shit ! [the VR thread]

[PumaG]

How much did the Amiga's VR kit cost?

[toxibunny]

When they first started talking about Oculus, one of their big selling points was that the headset would be cheap...

[Jamesac]

I wish the article had been more clear he'd given the $1500 quote a long while back. At $600 for just the headset, there's no way to build a VR system for $1500. That price was for everything inclusive, from the PC case to everything inside it plus the Rift, and that's obviously no longer accurate.

I'm sure I read on their website you'd be able to preorder an oculus ready PC and Rift starting at $1500 next month.

I often justify tech the way you've just done, but then I never seem to end up selling all the old junk! And thus next time I think I can cover the cost by selling stuff...

Yes, found it on the blog page:

https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/oculu ... -march-28/

Oculus Ready PCs
If you need a new PC to power your Rift, Oculus Ready PCs will be certified to meet our recommended system specification and have been tested by Oculus to ensure they deliver a great experience with Rift.

Bundles that include an Oculus Ready PC and a Rift will be available for pre-order in February starting at $1499.

If you pre-order Rift today, you’ll be able to order an Oculus Ready PC at the special bundle price, and of course, your Rift ship date won’t change.

Yep, you're completely right. Huh. I have no idea what kind of PC comes with a $600 VR unit and can also power it properly for a combined cost of $1500. I'm feeling a little iffy on that actually being possible, but if they can pull it off I'll be impressed. Skeptical, but impressed.

[KlaxonCow]

TotalBiscuit has an interesting take on the price of the Oculus Rift:



(Basically, for those without 27 minutes to spare, the gist of it being "yes, I entirely understand your disappointment - and that disappointment, if it translates into poor sales, could even potentially harm VR as a concept, so this certainly isn't great that they let this shit happen - but, really, the price does actually make perfect sense, if you think about it and compare it to similar technologies. Bearing in mind that the resolution, frame rate, etc. of just the display is in excess of anything we normally use - and how much do you pay for an impressively good HDTV or 4K monitor? - much less the head tracking, audio and all the rest of it added on top of that too. The real fault here was Oculus PR repeatedly promoting the idea that it'd be 'in the ballpark of $350' beforehand, generating false expectations and setting everyone up for this disappointment, because it was never realistic to ever suggest that. Also, as an aside, why the fuck are they giving you an X-Box controller with this thing, anyway?")

[gilesgoat]

It will be interesting to see how all this thing "evolves" .. thing is I think "the finally hit the reality" of the fact that "doing a VR that PROPERLY delivers" it's not going to be super mega cheap.

We saw the various prototypes, we saw the various this and that .. there's only so ( little ) much you can cut corners .. need a good display and fast one, need big res, needs to be light, the tracking and such must work flawlessly .. There's a lot that goes and "the more you put in the better it goes" ..

$599 is a bit of a price but as you say "probably ok for what the stuff contains" ..

I guess the XBOX controller is "because if you don't have any controller what you control stuff with ?" .. sure you could say KB/Mouse but in truth once you are immersed in VR "you can't do it", you need something to hold in your hands and "easy" to use ( or that you already know how to use ) .. "as there are no good standards" I think PC-wise it's not a bad idea the XBOX controller as it's the only one NATIVELY supported by Windows

I think "the real bad thing" was talking/promising stuff "around 350" and then almost double it, at this point would have been "better" maybe if they said no price at all before hand.

However .. let's say OR itself "has a fair price for what it gives you", that's not even IMHO "the big problem" .. you pay for what you get for a device that is cool.

BUT .. "the even bigger problem" I think is going to be that "mr Joe Laptop" that loves his/her laptop so much will finally discover HOW SHIT a laptop is for such kind of appl and then how PUMPED PC/GPU you need to have THE REAL VR EXPERIENCE.

Now I haven't tried/seen Cresent Bay, sadly, but even a "relatively modern" 1000 pound PC with "quite a reasonable NVidia GPU need 700W PSU and such" .. it's "just enough" to run things smooth and "all the **** Unity-based shit" probably would need an even better PC/GPU.

That's going to be I think "the interesting issue" .. people will find soon out that $599 for the OR is "nothing" compared to what they need as PC/GPU to really have the thing and that "no, you won't be playing with your laptop this thing PROPERLY"

Of course "if you really are into VR you ( should ) know all this and you are ready for" but 'for the majority' that think "OH I can do ANYTHING with my ( 300 pounds or cheaper ) laptop" or such .. it's going to be a heck of a wakeup call and realize once more again that 'cool tech is not cheap and you get what you paid for'.

Maybe - FINALLY - we'll have a "revival" of desktop machines and even better graphic cards on the market.

I think I can hear Dio laughing and smiling with a 360 smile across his face Yes I think your pension is sorted

[The ghost of raids past]

Its not $599 dollars though in the Uk its £530 with shipping or $770 in dollars. Thats a hell of a lot for an umproven device that may due to the high price receive very little support.

I feel sorry for the developers who went into VR at the moment, they are not going to have a vast market to sell into.

Then there is the fact that even at the minimum specs you are not going to get a great experience and probably will have to wait for this years more poweful graphic cards to be released to get a good experience.

[Dio]

Maybe - FINALLY - we'll have a "revival" of desktop machines and even better graphic cards on the market.

I think I can hear Dio laughing and smiling with a 360 smile across his face Yes I think your pension is sorted

I'd have been happier if it was about two thirds that price. It is an awful lot, and Valve and Sony are in theory more expensive because they have more kit to ship. I was hoping the cost of a VR station would be under £1000 - about a third each for mainboard, VR headset and graphics - but the high price of the headset is pushing it significantly above that and Oculus probably have the biggest gross margin slice of the component builders. That's a little disappointing and it's going to inhibit market growth.

If you want to analyse the UK price closely you have to start out by taking the £500 and cutting out the £100 tax and £100 retailer margin.

[zbandito]

It's first adopter pricing, with a nod to KS backers. They've got the field to themselves only briefly. Sony is unlikely to price their headset higher than the PS4 base unit. That puts a low end price for OR to work towards as they try to beat Vive, compete with Sony, lower prices for the 2016 holidays, etc. Then continue to lower the price on CV1 as they introduce an eventual CV2.

[pogo]

Its not $599 dollars though in the Uk its £530 with shipping or $770 in dollars. Thats a hell of a lot for an umproven device that may due to the high price receive very little support.

Most of the difference is VAT: add 20% to $599 and it’s $720. Add shipping and it seems reasonable, compared to the US price. It’s just that itself is very high. I agree the biggest problem with the high price (and high price of ownership if you also need to upgrade your PC) is it will suppress sales and so discourage developers. Which will give you less reason to buy it even when the price drops.

What strikes me as odd is the supply problems. The thing has a lot in common with an iPhone (apart from the price). State of the art display technology, motion tracking, cameras. All of these are possible because of the work that has gone into them for phones. But Apple, when they announce a new phone, can have a million of them in stores within days. What’s stopping Oculus doing the same? They are not Apple but Apple does not make their own phones, they contract out everything: the parts, the manufacturing, the shipping. With Facebook’s resources Oculus could do the same, and perhaps achieve some economies of scale.

The only think I can think is, even at this price, they are losing money, a lot of money, so much that even if they achieve some economies of scale it’s not worth it. That’s bad news if you want to wait until they get cheaper, as first they need to cut costs and make a profit. We will see; not obvious to me why they are so expensive, especially with the technology having a lot in common with phones except with the PC GPU doing all the heavy lifting, but sooner or later someone will do a teardown to see how much they actually cost to make.

[Dio]

No way they are losing money on this. The devkits show you approximately what a cost price - for a limited run - was.

Apple is a company that understands a supply chain. They made their supply person CEO. Facebook... aren't.

[Mqark]

Oculus have stated that supply won't be an issue so no-one needs to be concerned that they won't get a unit.

They have also stated that they aren't making a profit on the headsets - which I take to imply they aim to make all their money from their app store.

[gilesgoat]

I SUPPOSE in this case Sony may have quite an "edge" .. because "you already have the PS4" and the PS4 makes "perfectly sense alone even without VR" .. so if they price Morpheus "right" I think they may have a significant advantage over OR here

Makes also wonder "what Valve is going to do" .. thing is I don't think that you can go "that low" on the HW .. and at this point "the PC problem remains" .. and I don't really see Valve coming out with "their magic boxes SO CHEAP that can run VR" ..

As I said for as cheap ( and cannot be that cheap unless you are ready to face a loss not a profit on the HW itself ) the VR thing can be, still the PC/GPU problem remains ..

Has to be seen how all that is going to be.

[gilesgoat]

Oculus have stated that supply won't be an issue so no-one needs to be concerned that they won't get a unit.

They have also stated that they aren't making a profit on the headsets - which I take to imply they aim to make all their money from their app store.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ... really ? ... I think there's a tremendous potential here for ending up in tears ... how much the apps have to cost them given :

1. the number of people with VR
2. How much people nowadays expects to pay

.. you can't sell that thing a $20 or so .. you need MUCH MORE to recoup costs ..

[pogo]

No way they are losing money on this. The devkits show you approximately what a cost price - for a limited run - was.

Apple is a company that understands a supply chain. They made their supply person CEO. Facebook... aren't.

According to Mr Luckey they are losing money on the hw, as it needs a subsidy from FB:

Mr Luckey said a VR system will probably cost a total of $1,500, including the headset and a PC powerful enough to run its high-resolution graphics fast enough to maintain the illusion of virtual worlds. Even then, the Rift’s cost is being subsidised to make it more affordable, as Facebook and Oculus try to establish the market for VR, Mr Luckey has said.

Apple are good at this, yes, but only as they have to be. No-one else sells as much at once of any product. Many other companies though manage similar rollouts on a smaller scale. All it takes is money to pay the people who actually make the parts, assemble the product and ship it.

[gilesgoat]

Let's not forget that Apple has/HAD a big advantage ...

Apple puts out "Sublime Apple New VR Kit at $10,000 a piece" .. .. and YET they can find quite a number of people buying into it

Also they would probably put out the same time that "the previous Mac something goes out of warranty/fashion etc and CASUALLY oh there's just the NEW Mac thing that can run VR perfectly and costs you $2000 " ..

.. but .. but .. it's THE NEW MAC !! .. "Apple fans WANT IT" ( regardless of VR or such ) .. so they sell both