Fool me, this is real good shit ! [the VR thread]

[gravy]

No-one is going to be investing tens of millions of dollars on an AAA VR-only game until they can sell millions of units

Well they are. I know of a few.

You don't understand business.

You can't call "tens of millions" a large amount of money for a company to invest in a speculative platform without the context of the company.

If tens of millions represents a small proportion of their R&D budget it's not a lot. If they can see their core business is in decline then it's wise to invest in potential markets. If they also can clearly see they missed the boat on the last big growth market (mobile, free to play) and can't in because they entered late then they also know the markets will hand their arse to them on a plate if they miss this one.

[gilesgoat]

Mine is 6/20 - 6/30.

.. I don't want to be a party spoiler but remember that at the present we are working for PSVR .. ( also I am getting the impression, could be very wrong not having seen ANY of the 2 other systems yet that the PSVR is probably still 'the most visually stunning' ) ..

.. you know there will be a certain time of "Sony Exclusivity" so I am afraid after it gets out on PS4 you may have to wait "a little extra" before you'll have it on your PC ...

Mind you yesterday as a TEST I put the PSVR at 90Hz, also to check "how it looks like" .. well .. yes but .. "when you got the eye and you know how/what to look for" .. 120 Hz "is another story" ..

I am more and more inclined to think that Sony may have really nailed here ...

[Misfit]

Giles, are you likely to get a release version of the Rift/Vive any time soon? It would be great to hear the thoughts you could give on them compared to your Sony experiences.

[gilesgoat]

Giles, are you likely to get a release version of the Rift/Vive any time soon? It would be great to hear the thoughts you could give on them compared to your Sony experiences.

I am trying to work "in parallel" with both versions, keeping the "PC" engine "aligned" with the PS4 one, although recently we been focusing "on getting things done" on PS4 first so that part is a bit "idle" and still need to upgrade all to the latest OR SDK.

The VIVE side of things I haven't touched it yet, so I don't even know how that dev environment works.

In terms of "what sooner" probably a PC/DX11/Rift version.

What I probably suppose/expect is that the PC will give me "less problems" to get "performance" out, assuming you have a "VR ready" PC but yeah I am very very curious to see "the difference in overall visual / VR experience" compared to Sony PSVR.

Also let's not forget Samsung Gear .. so as can see I have fuckload of work in my hands.

[Misfit]

Sorry, not what I meant. Are you expecting to get the actual release hardware of the Rift/Vive soon? I assumed you were still working with a DK2...

[gilesgoat]

Sorry, not what I meant. Are you expecting to get the actual release hardware of the Rift/Vive soon? I assumed you were still working with a DK2...

Ah yes in that sense .. well we have some plans but we don't precisely which one of the two, fact is we saw we can develop/test the latest thing still using DK2 so MAYBE ( but nothing is definitive yet ) next buy could be the Vibe.

Personally I don't know I mean the whole "walk in the room/controller thing" "yeah but no yeah" I .. don't think it's "very practical" nor for the moment we have in mind to create any specific thing where "you really need to walk" the type of game we are doing now is actually more 'stay sit'.

About controllers again "well yeah but .. " .. let's say for the moment we are still more aiming at "traditional" stuff like DS4/Xbox controller for PC.

Also literally "bit of problem here creating/finding the required space ( to walk around ) for a vive".

To be honest all this thing of "walk around and move" while playing a game "I am not so sure it's such a super great idea", it can be for certain things but "not for everything" plus "how you translate a game made like that for other VR systems that can't do that ?".

What *I* really want to see with MY OWN EYES is :

1. image quality
2. tracking quality
3. artifacts and things
4. "overall look" of "how the thing looks/feels/is perceived" once you strap the thing in
5. "responsiveness" of the HW
6. comfort and use ( glasses ! I wear prescription glasses I cannot remove or I can't see a thing ! )
7. "easyness" of "getting into"

I spent basically over 1 year wearing/using VR ( actually 2 ? can't remember ? ) so I got "more a bit the eye" for what I am looking for and what to look at, I am *EXTREMELY* "picky" in stuff.

I could say "I've seen quite a few things" that would make "many" people go WOW and it makes me go "WOW" for .. 40 seconds and then I start "to see what maybe you will see 2 hours later" and it goes from "WOW" to "wait a mint .. this .. and that .. and that .. and hum .. and I'd have done this differently" ..

As I said "use VR 20 mins is a thing, use it 4 hours is another" ..

[edit] - and use it for months like 6 hours a day is yet another.

[defsdoor]

It's the handset and headset tracking of the Vive that's more interesting to me at the moment.

I imagine a Skyrim-like game where your swings are accurately mapped into sword swings and intelligently scored/defended, along with accurate bow shooting, item picking up etc.. etc.. would be ace.

Not sure about walking or standing up though - I'd sooner be sat on a stool (so arm movement isn't restricted), but the lack of proper thumbsticks might make movement with the touchpads cumbersome.

Still all way too expensive for me to even remotely consider though

[KlaxonCow]

From what I've seen so far, they explicitly label some games as "roomscale experiences" and others are "sit down experiences".

That is, walking around is not mandatory.

It's just, you know, the selling point of the Vive - the "roomscale" thing, plus what sounds from all reports to be the best-ever-most-accurate motion controllers you can get - over something like the Rift, which is only sit down and doesn't have its own controller solution as yet, so they're understandably pushing that as the "only the Vive can do this!" promotion while, indeed, only the Vive can do it and the competition hasn't yet caught them in that field.

You'll notice in that "Woz on Mars" video I posted above, Woz is wearing a Vive headset but he's sitting down and he's using a standard controller, inside his little virtual Mars buggy. It can be done that way with the Vive, just as with the Rift.

After all, as far as the Vive's sensors are concerned, a sit down experience is just a "roomscale experience" where the headset isn't moving around much. Really, labelling things as "a roomscale experience" is for users to know "oh, right, this is a stand up game, not a sit down game". An indication that "yes, this is a game designed for the motion controllers, where you walk around and point them at shit".

(I've also heard only praise for the "chaperone" to the point of people asking "what's the front camera for?", in that they've never found a need for it, as the chaperone - the virtual wall that appears to show you where your real walls are, so you don't walk into them - works well and the accuracy of the controllers is such that if you put them down on a table then you can see them, walk up to them and pick them up without any issues.)

[gilesgoat]

"Silly consideration" ...

.. do you know how many "Geeks with the money that could buy that" actually do live/have an apartment where they can set up/do a "roomscale experience" ?

Also you ever tried spending 1 hour or so "moving all around waving hands" to fight Skyrim creatures and such ? .. I bet after 15 mins you want to sit down and your arms are sore

[Barney]

Reminds me of that MS Kinect thing - needed a room of a certain size, and that really took off, didn't it?

[gumboot]

Also you ever tried spending 1 hour or so "moving all around waving hands" to fight Skyrim creatures and such ? .. I bet after 15 mins you want to sit down and your arms are sore

That sounds awfully "first world problem". Think of all the poor people who have to spend all day swinging real swords at real creatures while wearing armour and carrying swag. Eh? No consideration at all! Disgraceful.

[gilesgoat]

OW OW OW OW OW OUCH ...

.. I just gave myself quite a dose of "simulator sickness" while testing a thing ...

NO CAMERAS "a la' classic FPS in VR! " .. NO WAY ...

[OX mkII]

When the next wave of domain extensions come around they need to reserve .VOM for VR based sites.

[Darkflame]

Maybe VRML will make a comeback. Or a come.

[Yak]

From what I've been hearing it sounds like it'd be ages before we could get a release Occy anyway as the preorder time appears to have gone completely to cock. Not sure how much better it is (if at all) for the vive. Anyway we've our hands full doing PSVR things so although it'd be interesting to see the other rigs it's not terribly high on the list at the moment (most of the released Oculus stuff still works in dk2 anyway so despite low rez we can still have a play around with that).

Regarding motion sickness, yeah, a lot of the onus to avoid that rests on the developer. Sometimes it feels like they've gone *too* far (a couple of the Oculus launch titles won't allow you to move at all directly and have you kind of "teleport" instead). It's possible to work around it though; our new title is crazy fast without ever getting anywhere near uncomfortable even after hours of play.