Trump

[gravy]

It's not about Trump. It's about this:

I'll have more respect for future presidents who stick to their guns, than the last few showers who kill 100's of thousands then admit they were wrong.

Let's tackle that first.

You can't see what I have no respect for Bush and Obama? fuck off they're filth. They should have both just stuck to their guns and claimed they did the right thing. Not that it makes any difference mind, the majority seemed to accept what they were doing and revoted for them and the twats are now being duped with the latest rounds of admissions of mistakes

Putin on Syria "stabilising the legitimate power in Syria and creating the conditions for political compromise"

almost the opposite of what Bush and Obama did and opposite of what America generally aspires to do

I can read. I saw you'd referred to the previous couple of Presidents. No need to go on about having no respect for Bush or Obama when that's patently obvious you don't and no one has claimed otherwise.

I'm asking about an insane value system where respect for potus is more important than the people killed by bad decisions.

It's genuinely nuts. Don't address that if you don't want to but conversely I don't really understand how you think some handwavey straw manning is relevant either.

[PumaG]

.

[PumaG]

It's not about Trump. It's about this:

I'll have more respect for future presidents who stick to their guns, than the last few showers who kill 100's of thousands then admit they were wrong.

Let's tackle that first.

You can't see what I have no respect for Bush and Obama? fuck off they're filth. They should have both just stuck to their guns and claimed they did the right thing. Not that it makes any difference mind, the majority seemed to accept what they were doing and revoted for them and the twats are now being duped with the latest rounds of admissions of mistakes

Putin on Syria "stabilising the legitimate power in Syria and creating the conditions for political compromise"

almost the opposite of what Bush and Obama did and opposite of what America generally aspires to do

I can read. I saw you'd referred to the previous couple of Presidents. No need to go on about having no respect for Bush or Obama when that's patently obvious you don't and no one has claimed otherwise.

I'm asking about an insane value system where respect for potus is more important than the people killed by bad decisions.

It's genuinely nuts. Don't address that if you don't want to but conversely I don't really understand how you think some handwavey straw manning is relevant either.

I don't agree with Trump, but it appears he wants to stomp on the middle east, do the job properly and then not apologise for it.
when the other wars started Americans were pretty much whoop whooping for this to happen anyway and it appears they respected the basic idea, expected a far bigger loss of American life, all without realising what was really going on. The never ending lies, and typical American self -serving, and the hypocrisy.

Russia appeared to get involved in Syria partly because of America/Obama's bullshit, incompetence. And who's counting non-western deaths anyway? Terrorist attacks in Paris and Brussels less than 200 killed world shakes on its axis , there are times where this seem daily routine in the middle east and Africa, what are the Liberal media doing about it?

[gravy]

At least it's an ethos!

[funkstar]

Yes. One thing that separates Trump from the rest of the field, and pretty much every western politician, is he is a pathological liar. Everyone lies at some time, politicians more than most. But for Trump it’s the default mode. He even lies when it is easily falsifiable. E.g. his claim that he saw “thousands and thousands of people” cheering the collapse of the World Trade Centre. Not only is that false but it’s easily verified as false. Or his claim to not know who David Duke was.

One of my favourite examples of Trump lying is regarding the "Real Donald Trump Quotes About Women" ad:

[Dio]

Russia appeared to get involved in Syria partly because of America/Obama's bullshit, incompetence.

Which has made it SO much better...

And who's counting non-western deaths anyway? Terrorist attacks in Paris and Brussels less than 200 killed world shakes on its axis

I am. It's inconvenient to the people in power of course.

there are times where this seem daily routine in the middle east and Africa, what are the Liberal media doing about it?

Acknowledging that it's a fucking hard problem that can't be solved with any number of bullets?

[Darkflame]

Trump answers questions and theres an element of truth when directing what he says, which is where most of the offence comes from,

Oh, I see, so the fact he claims thousands of Muslims were dancing in the streets celebrating the deaths of thousands is only offensive because "secretly we all know they wanted too" Is that what your saying? really?

Because I can assure you, no, that's not it. That might be what you think, but that most certainly is not why people find that lie offensive. Its kind hard for me to even think of a more offensive lie really.

The offensive does come from a few different angles though. One its stating that a large number of people celebrated mass murder - inferring they are horrible,horrible people. The other offensiveness comes from him causally making blatant lies like that purely to appeal to scum that will vote for someone that says stuff like that.
Its like a confirmation bias that doesn't even need a single real datapoint to support it. Trump says something that conforms to a raciest view - who cares that it isnt true? Believing it makes it easier to justify your racism!
Trump thus can say whatever shit he likes and people will justify because it feels right to them.

--

Also, regarding answering questions "I know smart people" and "trust me I have a secret plan" is dodging questions.

[zip accident]

Oh, I see, so the fact he claims thousands of Muslims were dancing in the streets celebrating the deaths of thousands is only offensive because "secretly we all know they wanted too" Is that what your saying? really?

Because I can assure you, no, that's not it. That might be what you think, but that most certainly is not why people find that lie offensive.

It may be horrible, but I remember a news report on that day of palestinians celebrating an attack against an ally of Israel. I can't be sure there were thousands, but there were a large number. They probably hadn't thought through all the implications, because the news was just coming in.

There is a picture somewhere of what is believed to be Hitler celebrating the start of WW1, there are other people celebrating there, it's a big public square. Both sides thought they would win that war by Christmas 1914.

[Darkflame]

When two groups are at war, some in areas, and in some times in history - yes, people have celebrated the deaths of other people.

Thats quite heavy reductionism though in order to put that in the same category as thousands in one city celebrating in the streets at the deaths of thousands living in the same city.

[Little stoned kiwi]

When Osama Bin Laden was killed, Times Square was packed full of celebrants waving flags and chanting, 'USA!'
The only thing missing was AK-47's for them to fire in the air.

[tufty]

When Osama Bin Laden was killed, Times Square was packed full of celebrants waving flags and chanting, 'USA!'
The only thing missing was AK-47's for them to fire in the air.

Ironic, really, as Joe Sixpack probably has more ready access to arms than the average Palestinian.

[PumaG]

Trump answers questions and theres an element of truth when directing what he says, which is where most of the offence comes from,

Oh, I see, so the fact he claims thousands of Muslims were dancing in the streets celebrating the deaths of thousands is only offensive because "secretly we all know they wanted too" Is that what your saying? really?

Because I can assure you, no, that's not it. That might be what you think, but that most certainly is not why people find that lie offensive. Its kind hard for me to even think of a more offensive lie really.

The offensive does come from a few different angles though. One its stating that a large number of people celebrated mass murder - inferring they are horrible,horrible people. The other offensiveness comes from him causally making blatant lies like that purely to appeal to scum that will vote for someone that says stuff like that.
Its like a confirmation bias that doesn't even need a single real datapoint to support it. Trump says something that conforms to a raciest view - who cares that it isnt true? Believing it makes it easier to justify your racism!
Trump thus can say whatever shit he likes and people will justify because it feels right to them.

--

Also, regarding answering questions "I know smart people" and "trust me I have a secret plan" is dodging questions.

No you don't see. Because they're all liars and I never claimed Trump hasn't told lies. Im talked about the fact that intelligent people are looking for truths, with warnings, about what he says.

The worry for most is that a more presentable candidate in 10 - 20 years holding most of Trump's views, will win presidency.


(This is liberal friendly as it's actually mostly an attack on Trump's ideas)

"Donald Trump is speaking harsh truths, and the world needs to listen" William Hague

"If Trump has passed his peak this week, it is good news for the American presidency. But it would be a bad mistake by leaders all over the globe if they failed to understand the people who have been voting for him. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04 ... ds-to-lis/



what you've just done, is holding his most distasteful rant up high in hope to bury him and end the discussion. Very liberal, and very outdated. Everything he says that has high numbers of people agreeing and backing him, needs to be out in the open for discussion. Not getting knickers in a twist and tripping over yourselves being offended.
There are articles appearing, admittedly mostly in the right wing media, that are discussing elements of truth in what he says, rather than try to shut it down or to point and mock.

As already mentioned, Americans are no strangers to celebrating and whoop whooping 'lets kick ass' comments when at war, so wouldn't surprise me at all if some American muslims adopted this trait and cheered when the towers came down . with all politicians lying, Im not bothered whether he's lying or not, but you can't prove either that the extreme followers of Islam inside the USA, who like in Europe hate their host country, weren't celebrating.


A good example of truths that offend you, would be the fact that an intelligent comedian can invent a very popular character that to work needs to be untouchable and get away with things no one else could, so they give him a Muslim name. Worked a treat.

It's slowly becoming accepted that Multi-culrutrism was a failed experiment in the UK and this something Trump is playing on. You won't see it because it offends you. The biggest victims are in fact the very people you're scared of upsetting.

This offends you too right :

“He’s done very, very poorly for African-Americans, and they should be insulted and they should be angry about it, but they don’t seem to be, which is to me amazing,”

Is that a lie?

That's Trump on Obama. What I find offensive is rather than get them out of the slums and get America out of debt, he went to them once per year to serve them soup to look good for the cameras and to get them to re-vote for him, so that he could go on to arm Al Qaida's friends, killing and displacing more Muslims, but you were likely feeling sorry for yourself with offence to notice.

[gravy]

what you've just done, is holding his most distasteful rant up high in hope to bury him and end the discussion. Very liberal, and very outdated.

The issue is if you do the same to anyone of his peers in mainstream US politics Trump's most distasteful ranting is the most distasteful.

You seem to be saying it's not valid to judge a politician on what they say or compare them to others because that would be "very liberal and very outdated"

So what's the correct, modern way to make an assessment here?

[PumaG]

what you've just done, is holding his most distasteful rant up high in hope to bury him and end the discussion. Very liberal, and very outdated.

The issue is if you do the same to anyone of his peers in mainstream US politics Trump's most distasteful ranting is the most distasteful.

You seem to be saying it's not valid to judge a politician on what they say or compare them to others because that would be "very liberal and very outdated"

So what's the correct, modern way to make an assessment here?

I wasn't talking about judging, him, I was talking about the attempt to shutdown discussion is very liberal and outdated, but then again this is pretty much taught in UK and US universities, to the point of now re-writing history not to cause offence and re-moving historical artefacts.

If it can be proved that nobody celebrated the towers coming down, then he should be removed. Show me 100% honest politician and then lets judge Trump.

I can show you a Conservative MP who've had fair proposed EU policies overturned based on delusion, lies and being totally out of touch with reality (and most likely receiving a bung or two) This was in the transport sector and will cause genuine damage to health and quality of life, which is far more offensive to me.

[gravy]

Really?

The problem here for Trump is people are discussing his bullshit.

What he's saying to is being listened to and discussed and mostly found to be impractical and ludicrous.

It's not closing down discussion, it's offering a response to what's being said.

How else should the discussion about forcing the military to torture or building an infeasible wall go?

You're hand waving about liberals closing down discussion but it's nonsense. You don't seem to understand the ramifications of anything you're posting here.

So what if other politicians lie. It's irrelevant. There's 2 people realistically in the running to be the GOP presidential candidate and they deserve directed and special attention.