Trump

[phattslagg]

Apology retracted

[venusian]

To be clear about my own point of view.

I don't think Muslims should be denied entry to the US (or the EU) because of their religion. Christians shouldn't get a free pass just because of their religion. Asking Muslims to give up their religion is a Wrong Thing. Anybody should be able to follow a religion if they so choose.

However the UK comes with an EULA which one implicitly accepts by entering: the law of the land trumps religious and cultural law. This means it's legal, and allowed, to leave a religion, to join a new one, and criticise any religion without punishment and without it being outlawed for being <whatever>ist. This is incompatible with the culture and effective regime in some countries. People and religion may come. Some cultural practices may not.

[gravy]

To be clear about my own point of view.

I don't think Muslims should be denied entry to the US (or the EU) because of their religion. Christians shouldn't get a free pass just because of their religion. Asking Muslims to give up their religion is a Wrong Thing. Anybody should be able to follow a religion if they so choose.

However the UK comes with an EULA which one implicitly accepts by entering: the law of the land trumps religious and cultural law. This means it's legal, and allowed, to leave a religion, to join a new one, and criticise any religion without punishment and without it being outlawed for being <whatever>ist. This is incompatible with the culture and effective regime in some countries. People and religion may come. Some cultural practices may not.

The only people not agreeing with that here are Zip and PumaG

[merman]

Former New York Senator and New York resident Hillary Clinton wins in New York.

New York born Donald Trump wins in New York, home of many of his investments.

Hardly a surprise, was it?

[(o)(o)]

Trump confuses 9/11 with 7-Eleven. In New York the day before their vote. Probably will still win there.

I just watched that on our TV news.

I should say that our news present him everyday as completelly retarded.

Well. Yes. It's kinda difficult to present him as anything else, you know?

the retarded thing is that Hillary and Barrack get off lightly making votes and decisions they wernt even sure of, that cost hundreds of thousands of lives, whilst Trump is taken to task for his clumsy half hearted approach to social media and verbal slip-ups. Cowards.

On the plus side, maybe if he becomes president he'll accidentally vote for peace instead of war. Eeh Hillary?

I don't get it. Do American's need an actual clown on the platform to identify and evaluate acts other politicians have committed?

[pogo]

the retarded thing is that Hillary and Barrack get off lightly making votes and decisions they wernt even sure of, that cost hundreds of thousands of lives, whilst Trump is taken to task for his clumsy half hearted approach to social media and verbal slip-ups. Cowards.

Nonsense. The Gulf War was under Bush. That was a choice which cost hundreds of thousands of lives.

But conflicts under Obama were nothing like that. The war in Libya was already happening. The West took limited action in Libya to bring the conflict to an end, to prevent either Gaddafi violently crushing the opposition or a protracted civil war. The conflict in Syria was already happening. Western action there has severely curtailed the successes of both ISIS and Assad. If it were not for Russia that conflict might be over by now.

And even those conflicts are more or less direct consequences of Bush’s decision to invade of Iraq. ISIS formed in the power vacuum after Saddam Hussein was toppled. The ousting of Saddam inspired people in other countries to rise against their dictators, leading to peaceful revolution in some cases but bloody civil wars in Libya and Syria.

It may seem unfair to blame Bush now, but it is a sign of how disastrous the invasion of Iraq was, that we are still dealing with the consequences. Continued Republican intransigence does not help. The Guantanamo Bay detention centre would have closed long ago if it had not been blocked by Republicans. That both prolongs the Iraq conflict and is a propaganda tool for people like ISIS in the Middle East today.

[PumaG]

the retarded thing is that Hillary and Barrack get off lightly making votes and decisions they wernt even sure of, that cost hundreds of thousands of lives, whilst Trump is taken to task for his clumsy half hearted approach to social media and verbal slip-ups. Cowards.

Nonsense. The Gulf War was under Bush. That was a choice which cost hundreds of thousands of lives.

But conflicts under Obama were nothing like that. The war in Libya was already happening. The West took limited action in Libya to bring the conflict to an end, to prevent either Gaddafi violently crushing the opposition or a protracted civil war. The conflict in Syria was already happening. Western action there has severely curtailed the successes of both ISIS and Assad. If it were not for Russia that conflict might be over by now.

And even those conflicts are more or less direct consequences of Bush’s decision to invade of Iraq. ISIS formed in the power vacuum after Saddam Hussein was toppled. The ousting of Saddam inspired people in other countries to rise against their dictators, leading to peaceful revolution in some cases but bloody civil wars in Libya and Syria.

It may seem unfair to blame Bush now, but it is a sign of how disastrous the invasion of Iraq was, that we are still dealing with the consequences. Continued Republican intransigence does not help. The Guantanamo Bay detention centre would have closed long ago if it had not been blocked by Republicans. That both prolongs the Iraq conflict and is a propaganda tool for people like ISIS in the Middle East today.

Hillary voted for one of bush's wars iirc and then regretted it. ive said it before but id respect her more if shed stood by her vote. but shes admitted she didnt know what she was doing. costing poss 100.000 lives

Ive only got Barrack down for 10.000 lives for arming Al Qaeda . (here we go again) aligned rebels and his wild drone strikes.

Now, ive never had any desire to see trump as president. but somewhat tongue in cheek. the best option for peace after 3 or 4 decades would be for the fucking 'retard' to get in and vote for peace by accident.
zero respect for clinton and obama for signing off war like a page of their kid's homework they didnt even read properly

[gravy]

Here we go again

[PumaG]

Here we go again

Obama is hiding his weapons in Trump's 'corn of the cob quiff' theyre all in it together

stranger things have happened eh? Al Qaeda tut tut

btw does anyone know how much dough Hillary made out of Bush's phony war?

[pogo]

Hillary voted for one of bush's wars iirc and then regretted it. ive said it before but id respect her more if shed stood by her vote. but shes admitted she didnt know what she was doing. costing poss 100.000 lives

Ive only got Barrack down for 10.000 lives for arming Al Qaeda . (here we go again) aligned rebels and his wild drone strikes.

Clinton did not decide to invade Iraq. She may have voted for it as only one of 100 Senators, and the ultimate decision was Bush’s. If she had not been there, even if she had voted against it, Bush would still have done it.

Arming Al Qaeda ? Al Qaeda were a military force before Obama, before even Bush. I agree over drone strikes, which seem completely wrongheaded. But the numbers killed are in the hundreds, not 100,000. And again this is a consequence of the Iraq war and invasion of Afghanistan. Not only is a continuation of those conflicts, but drones are used as voters have no stomach now for sending in troops, after the disasters in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[pogo]

Former New York Senator and New York resident Hillary Clinton wins in New York.

New York born Donald Trump wins in New York, home of many of his investments.

Hardly a surprise, was it?

Not really a surprise, though it was an important result. It was not certain Clinton would win. Sanders has strong links to New York too, being born there (or just about in Brooklyn). Trump won as expected, but in doing so posted his highest share of the vote so far. For a candidate that had been hovering around 40% of the vote it was a welcome change.

Lots of complaints about how New York’s contest is run. Of all the states it has the longest waiting period for people changing political affiliation. This hurt Sanders in particular as people could not quickly join the Democratic party to support him. But it is only one state, and will not change the overall outcome of the race. As with many things in this race it is only an issue as both races are so close. Normally both races are decided before, often long before, NY.

[PumaG]

Hillary voted for one of bush's wars iirc and then regretted it. ive said it before but id respect her more if shed stood by her vote. but shes admitted she didnt know what she was doing. costing poss 100.000 lives

Ive only got Barrack down for 10.000 lives for arming Al Qaeda . (here we go again) aligned rebels and his wild drone strikes.

Clinton did not decide to invade Iraq. She may have voted for it as only one of 100 Senators, and the ultimate decision was Bush’s. If she had not been there, even if she had voted against it, Bush would still have done it.

Arming Al Qaeda ? Al Qaeda were a military force before Obama, before even Bush. I agree over drone strikes, which seem completely wrongheaded. But the numbers killed are in the hundreds, not 100,000. And again this is a consequence of the Iraq war and invasion of Afghanistan. Not only is a continuation of those conflicts, but drones are used as voters have no stomach now for sending in troops, after the disasters in Iraq and Afghanistan.

American voters expected a lot more loss of life than actually occured and initially found the sacrifice acceptable. the initial iraq invasion turned out to be a cake walk though
the turning point was when it started getting out theyd been duped and it was a phony war. bought by the Saudi's
cue America's obsession with automated killing tech so they can continue the farce.
the meddling continues today. Saudi in trouble. deals with Iran. get the CIA out and leave them to it. just going round in circles.
Could Trump be bought by the Saudis like Obama was?

[pogo]

Trump’s plans to stop supporting Saudi Arabia are striking, but I can’t see him ever carrying it out. It is not a one way street of US money propping up a nasty regime. The US gets arm sales, bases in the region, and a stable Saudi Arabia.

It is hard to underestimate how important that is. Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of Islam, and the Saudis for all their faults take that responsibility very seriously, allowing Muslims of diverse traditions and from around the world to come to the annual Hajj. If Saudi collapsed, or were taken over by someone with a particular axe to grind, the consequences for Islam, and so for peace among Islamic nations, could be calamitous.

Saudi Arabia is also the leading oil producer in the world. Not only is it biggest but it is the “swing producer”, most able to turn on and off supply. Other countries with large reserves have much higher technological or geographical barriers to exploiting them. A collapsed Saudi would mean massive disruption to oil markets, worse even than under the Gulf War when prices shot up to $145/barrel.

Because of all that I would think that if he were elected plans to defund Saudi Arabia would be quietly dropped. Along with his other more outlandish ideas, whether unworkable, unconstitutional or too damaging. The only major announced policy I think will survive is his tax cuts. But as with the Bush tax cuts, these would largely benefit the rich and simply add to the deficit.

[Muttley]

[PumaG]

#B o r i s T r u m p

now trending on Twitter among the mentally ill because the London Mayor criticised a politician who happened to have Black skin
just the type of 'political correctness' that's seen Trump gain extra support