Fool me, this is real good shit ! [the VR thread]

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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by KlaxonCow »

gilesgoat wrote:I think that "disks and networks" "DHCP" "printers not wasting papers" "real what you see is what you print" "filesystems that are really efficient" and "this thing still never has enough ram" are probably "unsolvable problems of HW/SW" I bet there must or should be some mathematical/logic proof that says "you will NEVER solve this problems in ANY system at ANY time" :roll:
You'll note that these things exist at the interface between cyberspace and meatspace. The boundary between the virtual and the physical.

The data might be digital, but disks - of the traditional not-solid-state variety, at least - involve actual physical moving parts. Things spinning up and spinning down. Motors. A read write head that has to move around and, thus, implicitly obey the laws of physics - so it can't just instantly change direction but has to decelerate itself to stop and then accelerate itself back up to speed in the other direction.

Because of this, file systems actually have to take into account the distances between things (where RAM basically doesn't, as all memory addresses can be thought of as essentially being "zero distance" away from each other). Seeking - actually moving that real physical moving part of the read write head - is the killer operation. If the data could be anywhere on the disk - randomly distributed - then the efficiency of a file system is basically, in effect, like trying to solve the Travelling Salesman problem on-the-fly.

Networks deal with the physical connections between devices. Physically joining up two separate instances of cyberspace. A portal between different dimensions, in a manner of speaking, that necessarily has to pass through the real world to cross over the physical boundaries.

Printers have moving parts. The ink, the paper which can jam, the print head that has to physically move back and forth.

You get the gist.

Inside cyberspace, there's one set of rules and inside meatspace, there's another set of rules (called "the laws of physics"). And at the interface between these different realms, that's when the shit starts hitting the fan.

It's like how the very small is ruled by quantum mechanics and the very big is ruled by general relativity, and the theory of how these two realms interface with each other? Umm, well, there isn't any. Fuck knows how they fit together exactly. They're bizarrely fundamentally incompatible with each other, despite us knowing that, individually, they're both demonstrably correct within their own respective realms.

Well, okay, it's not quite as extreme as that analogy - which really is a fundamental incompatibility problem inside reality itself - but hopefully you can get the gist of what I'm getting at there.

Inside the realm of cyberspace, everything is hunky dorey with itself and inside the realm of meatspace, everything is intrinsically compatible with itself. But, on the other hand, wherever the twain shall meet...

...yeah, that's where it all far too quickly turns to absolute shit and nothing ever quite works properly. :roll:

(So, by this logic, the other areas where you can expect to encounter such problems would also be in robotics - which, indeed, has more than enough problems trying to solve something that, in the physical realm, ought to be easy, like walking for a distance without falling over - and also with artificial intelligence - which has also had its issues of, well, not really going anywhere or coming up with any new theories for decades (modern AI progress has all really been about throwing more computing power at the problem, not fundamentally improving how we do it... well, except possibly for that machine which can play Go and beat humans, because that was a milestone for being a problem that can't simply be solved by throwing more and more computing power at it, as the problem is just too big to be ever pragmatically computable, and thus forces you to actually come up with a new ways of tackling the problem) - and, yes, leading to the point of this thread, VR / AR is also all about the interface between cyberspace and meatspace. In essence, it's trying to make cyberspace give off the impression that it's part of meatspace. It's all about bridging the two realms. So, indeed, expect things to go wrong and for there to be folks feeling dizzy and puking up as a result of it all. I'm as excited as everyone else for the prospect of it all, but this logic dictates that we probably need to be bracing ourselves for some new "doesn't quite work properly" problems ahead of us... although, as you're knee deep in this stuff already, giles, I'm probably preaching to the choir here, yes?)
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by gumboot »

So, now that people are getting them...

YouTube has a Cardboard setting on Android devices that support it, for viewing Jump videos. Is there a desktop viewer for the same content?

The reason I ask is because Jump advertises omnidirectional stereo (although I really can't see the effect on Cardboard). Doing this requires viewpoint interpolation (I mentioned it earlier in this thread), and once you've got that you could just as easily implement a modest degree of position tracking. But not on Cardboard because it doesn't implement that.

Does the desktop viewer do this?
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Jamesac »

Got to play with the Rift controllers today in the game I Expect You to Die. Really enjoyed them but I wish I could play on the Vive to compare the two. Much as I enjoyed I Expect You to Die, the thing I think that got me most was, when wearing the headset, being able to see my "hands" (the controllers) hovering in space where the developer was holding them, then reaching out with my face completely covered by the Rift and taking them as he handed them to me. I knew exactly where they were in real-world 3D space and could use that to accurately take them.

Also, Rez and Thumper both on Sony's VR. It was an excellent weekend. :mrgreen:
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Bod »

I'm still sat here with a £500 paper weight! :lol:

Installed the new Inateck Oculus compatible USB interface and I still have no video displayed on the Occy.
Support in their infinite wisdom have so far said make sure the cable is plugged in properly in the headset and directly into the GFX card.

They are now thinking I may have a duff unit or cable, but haven't responded for a couple of days to let me know what to try next.
I can't say I'm impressed with the whole experience so far. Fair enough I can except there may be hardware issues, but the support from a company owned by FB is pretty lame so far.
I may have no control over the length of my life, but the depth & width is entirely up to me.
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Bod »

Anyone got a Vive on order or received it yet?
Looks like they are starting to arrive ... https://twitter.com/JasonBradbury/statu ... 4004392960
I may have no control over the length of my life, but the depth & width is entirely up to me.
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by gumboot »

Bod wrote:I'm still sat here with a £500 paper weight! :lol:
If you'd said that aloud, we could make a joke about what kind of paper you're trying to deal with.
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Darkflame »

Bod wrote:Anyone got a Vive on order or received it yet?
Looks like they are starting to arrive ... https://twitter.com/JasonBradbury/statu ... 4004392960
Not got one, but my wife had a extensive go on one (after trying out some other VR headsets). She said the Vive was the best, but specifically that was due to the controller. She had some demo where she interacted with those controls to open some virtual curtains, and the combination of visuals, motion and force-feedback really created a strong illusion of the (thrilling) experience of opening curtains..
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Deckard »

Last night listening to the new Brian Eno album I decided a VR music synth would just be amazing :) Imagine listening to music whilst swooping about some VR graphics :)
Now with a new Mac Mini Pro so dont judge me !
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by gravy »

Bod wrote:Anyone got a Vive on order or received it yet?
Looks like they are starting to arrive ... https://twitter.com/JasonBradbury/statu ... 4004392960
We got ours on Friday. Everyone says it's utterly amazing.

Which it must be as I've not been able to get on it yet :D
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Kelloggs »

Deckard wrote:Imagine listening to music whilst swooping about some VR graphics :)
Yak and Giles, you guys on it yet? :wink:
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Yak »

Our current project feels more like being fired from a gun at the speed of light while somebody eyedroppers LSD into your eyeballs.
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by gilesgoat »

Kelloggs wrote:
Deckard wrote:Imagine listening to music whilst swooping about some VR graphics :)
Yak and Giles, you guys on it yet? :wink:
We are ALWAYS on something 8)
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by gilesgoat »

Yak wrote:Our current project feels more like being fired from a gun at the speed of light while somebody eyedroppers LSD into your eyeballs.
In truth, the only thing we could say so far is "We are pushing the boundaries of what Sony will allow us to publish out possibly without falling into the realm of illegal SW/true banned digital drug". :lol:

We were thinking yesterday "people expects some sort of things from LS and they are going to get it", now let's just hope they'll really allow us to bring out ( to the public ) what we are doing.

Oh goes without saying that if you ever remotely think there's something in your brain that could be affected in some way you don't want by VR you should not get close to this thing not even within a 20 miles radius, I can't tell you what it does or can do because my brain is totally twisted already so I would not know "if it does bad or good" :lol: :lol:

You want "an LS VR experience ?" you WILL get "an LS VR experience" .. still hoping of course we won't get banned or the SW "tamed" because "too avant garde" :roll: :mrgreen:
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Barney »

So I have VR Minecraft now. And it's every bit as immersive as I'd hoped it would be. The controls were crap until I figured out how to change them so I run in the direction I'm looking, and had to turn off VR Jumping (walking into a block automatically jumps on top if it's low enough) but after that... It's great :)
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Bod »

Bod wrote:I'm still sat here with a £500 paper weight! :lol:

Installed the new Inateck Oculus compatible USB interface and I still have no video displayed on the Occy.
Support in their infinite wisdom have so far said make sure the cable is plugged in properly in the headset and directly into the GFX card.

They are now thinking I may have a duff unit or cable, but haven't responded for a couple of days to let me know what to try next.
I can't say I'm impressed with the whole experience so far. Fair enough I can except there may be hardware issues, but the support from a company owned by FB is pretty lame so far.
Just plugged my Rift into my PC sitting in my arcade cabinet and it worked fine !!!
The spec on that machine is older than my current PC, but for whatever reason it doesn't work on that one?

Still nothing from support even though I have submitted 2 tickets.
I may have no control over the length of my life, but the depth & width is entirely up to me.
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