Trump

[Neon360]

Good. I think for the government to take close to anyone's income of close to 40% if fucking thievery and dropping it down to 25% is still high in my opinion but it beats the almost double 40%. We could probably afford a wall if we kept our assess out of every single country but our own and stop prying our nose in every single matter that doesn't pertain to us.

There are good arguments that US rates now are too low. Many countries manage very well with higher rates. In most of Europe, where not only are headline income tax rates higher but other taxes such as NI and VAT or their equivalents are added to them, taking the effective rate well over 50%.

An even stronger argument is one implicitly made by Trump and other Republicans. They promise to Make America Great Again, harking back in particular to the 1950s and 1960s when the middle classes did very well, when manufacturing was the bedrock of American economic performance. But that time, when America was Great ? The top tax rate was way higher, as high as 90%.

No-one proposing restoring tax rates to such high levels. But they could afford to be higher, to pay for e.g. universal healthcare. Will never happen? A recent poll suggest most Americans support replacing Obamacare with a govt., i.e. income tax, funded system.

Majority in U.S. Support Idea of Fed-Funded Healthcare System

Guess it's a good thing I don't live in Europe then because it would probably only make me even more bitter about the taxes than it does now. Could afford to be higher? No... they can keep their universal healthcare, it's garbage. You want to know what that equates to? Still paying a monthly sum for the worst possible coverage (basically none) because you're only meeting requirements and still end up paying not only in taxes but out the ass in the end because it's shit. All of it. Don't pay it throughout the year? Then you get fined at the end, which is also bullshit.

It's shitty to make someone pay through the nose for no real or true valued coverage just to influx more cash into the system and still get screwed in the end. Maybe it works in other countries but not here. I think the idea is to replace Obamacare with a better, reformed system but either way, I dislike it for the obvious reasons.

[F-ZeroOne]

The problem is: 11 million people ! To make a serious dent in that within a reasonable time scale, such as Trump’s four years, would require a massive expansion of government. Of immigration officers to find and detain people, of courts and officials to process them, of staff and facilities to detain them. All this at the same time as massive tax cuts.

And even that is too simplistic and optimistic. Probably any serious attempt to deport millions of settled immigrants would result in a massive program of civil disobedience. In particular of people aiding and abetting immigrants, protesting continually against the removals, even rioting and acting to keep immigration officials out of immigrant heavy areas with blockades.

As well as the slight issue that transporting them all, within the required time-frame (two Presidential terms at best) would likely be logistically impossible. It would require either the fastest growth in a nations railway system in history (for the almost sole purpose of transporting them with likely little benefit for future use), diversion of an unlikely number of aircraft (leaving aside the problem of getting people from the airport to... HappyTimes Processing Centre, lets call it) or a hell of a lot of buses.

Of course, this is presuming that you want the transport to be carried out in a humane manner, though you still have the problem of finding the required number of vehicles even then.

[pogo]

Fact is Americans pay far more, about twice as much, for a far worse health system. And it seems most Americans agree. Benefitting from information such as comparisons between the US and other systems they have come to realise that their insurance based system is not fit for purpose.

[merman]

Cyberpunk author William Gibson called Trump "American Fascism" on Twitter. Dread to think what sort of dystopian future we'll end up in if Trump is elected...

[gumboot]

I don't know how many have realised it. There's still a lot of "pay more get more" and "Stephen Hawking wouldn't be alive today...." attitude here. Michael Moore documentaries are, of course, widely understood to be not very accurate.

[Neon360]

Cyberpunk author William Gibson called Trump "American Fascism" on Twitter. Dread to think what sort of dystopian future we'll end up in if Trump is elected...

Seriously though, as opposed to any other candidate? We're in shambles either way and still on course for a complete collapse and total failure.

[F-ZeroOne]

I don't think Trump is either a Nazi or Facist - at least not consciously, I just think hes completely unaware that hes acting and saying things that make him virtually indistinguishable from one. Its kind of hard to tell, what with his habit of changing his mind on things, sometimes in the midst of the same sentence.

[tufty]

No... they can keep their universal healthcare, it's garbage.

When viewed through a pair of stars-and-stripes coloured mom's apple pie glasses, everything else looks shit.

You know what would really solve the issues with America's health system, though? Not Obamacare. More guns. Lots more guns.

[KlaxonCow]

You know what would really solve the issues with America's health system, though? Not Obamacare. More guns. Lots more guns.

[pogo]

I don't think Trump is either a Nazi or Facist - at least not consciously, I just think hes completely unaware that hes acting and saying things that make him virtually indistinguishable from one. Its kind of hard to tell, what with his habit of changing his mind on things, sometimes in the midst of the same sentence.

I think you can break his policies down three ways. The most obvious are his core policies that he focusses on at rallies. Building a border wall. Banning Muslims from entering the US. Deporting illegal immigrants. Bashing China and other foreign countries. These do not make a coherent platform. They are all implausibly expensive or impossible, or both, so it’s hard to imagine any of them being implemented. But they resonate well with the racist instincts in his supporters, and he has built them up to be his core policies.

The second group are things that are important to Republicans but that he does not care about, or even has views radically different from Republican orthodoxy. He does not want to talk about these, and ends up see-sawing and changing his mind over them as he does not have a worked out policy. Abortion is the main one of these, but it also includes anti-gay laws that some Republicans are fond of.

The third group are policies he really cares about but does not talk about much as they are not popular. His tax plan is one: tax cuts for the rich is Republican orthodoxy but it does down like a ton of bricks with ordinary Americans. Others include reforming the law through the Supreme Court, reforming the Fed and toughening libel laws.

This gets to the heart of why he wants to be President. He is a failed businessman by any reasonable measure, with repeated business failures, repeated bankruptcies, having lost and still facing court cases. He is only rich as he inherited it, and would be richer if he had just invested it in the stock market – his business ventures mostly have lost money. Without his inheritance he would have been just another gobby used car salesman.

But listen to him he is a success. I’m sure he believes he would have done better without all the high taxes, interfering courts, nosy journalists. As President he can reform all that, make America a better place for talentless rich people like himself, and rich donors to the Republican party.

[F-ZeroOne]

Insofar as anything about Trump makes sense, that does seem to do so.

[Neon360]

I don't think Trump is either a Nazi or Facist - at least not consciously, I just think hes completely unaware that hes acting and saying things that make him virtually indistinguishable from one. Its kind of hard to tell, what with his habit of changing his mind on things, sometimes in the midst of the same sentence.

Building a border wall. Banning Muslims from entering the US. Deporting illegal immigrants. Bashing China and other foreign countries. These do not make a coherent platform. They are all implausibly expensive or impossible, or both, so it’s hard to imagine any of them being implemented. But they resonate well with the racist instincts in his supporters, and he has built them up to be his core policies.

Protecting the country from illegal immigrants who want to abuse our system because it's incredibly easy and possible doesn't make anyone a racist, just to be clear. I can't understand how NOT following the law in any country is basis for resorting to calling someone a racist because other means are necessary to be implemented for protection against abusing the system. It also doesn't mean it's the correct way to handle our broken system but I suppose that is better than admitting our system is so broken beyond repair that it's just easier to do it the easier/cheaper way.

[Darkflame]

People calling Trump racist has naff all to do with "wanting there to be less illegals" in principle and everything to do with specific things the guy has said.

His opening speech started by calling most illegals Mexicans rapists.
Following it up by saying you want to ban all Muslims entering the country doesn't help either.

These are specific, very clear indications someone is either racist, or directly wanting to appeal to racist.

You cant turn it around and act like he just proposed some general immigration reforms and people are getting upset over the mere idea of it.

[pogo]

Problem is just saying they should not be here is not a policy. Saying you will deport them all is a policy but not a realistic one.

People on both sides of the political divide have looked at this down the years and recognised that immigration needs comprehensive reform. As well as enforcement there needs to be a path to citizenship or at least legalisation for some immigrants, such as those who came as children. Many people have tried to introduce such reform, including leading Republicans such as Marco Rubio. But is has always foundered on the intransigence of the Tea Party faction of Republicans in Congress.

Republican orthodoxy now is no immigration reform. No path to citizenship. The logical conclusion of that is deport them all, but that is not a realistic or workable policy. And it is a wedge issue for most Latinos, driving them overwhelmingly to support Democrats. To support Trump’s immigration policies despite this is both stupid (as the policy is unimplementable) and highly insensitive to the genuine concerns of Latino voters.

Does that make it a racist policy? On its own no, but together with all Trumps other policies against Latinos, Muslims, Asians and Blacks yes. It is essentially is a highly racist platform, designed to appeal most to racist Whites.

[gumboot]

It's racist if he doesn't build a northern wall!