Trump

[F-ZeroOne]

Citizens in Hiroshima feel strongly about nuclear weapons and the politics surrounding a visit by the major representative of the only country ever to use nuclear weapons in anger?

Gosh - that counted as news to you, PumaG? Also, you're using Chinese news sources, who may just be a little (if justifibly so) biased in their reporting?

You of course realise that if Mr. Trump (I know he now says he didn't say that but give him 30 seconds, he'll probably say it again) succeeds in his policy of either supporting Japan acquiring nuclear weapons, or helping them to do so, the least problematic thing to happen would be major civil disturbances in Japan?

Oh, whats the point anyway? After all, who cares, right?

[F-ZeroOne]

And, oh, the irony of PumaG quoting a news article mentioning "right-wing forces"..

[PumaG]

Meanwhile, they have never been willing to deeply reflect why it suffered the only two atomic bombings aimed at civilian targets in human history."

<puts hand up>

I know, Sir, I know!

They were they only ones still fighting against the Americans, Sir.

the key was Americans were asking them to surrender with the warnings what would happen, again consistent in history when good fights evil stubborn aggressors

[PumaG]

And, oh, the irony of PumaG quoting a news article mentioning "right-wing forces"..

Yeah, not mocking Trump everyday makes me a racist too...

[PumaG]

Citizens in Hiroshima feel strongly about nuclear weapons and the politics surrounding a visit by the major representative of the only country ever to use nuclear weapons in anger?

Gosh - that counted as news to you, PumaG? Also, you're using Chinese news sources, who may just be a little (if justifibly so) biased in their reporting?

Not news as such, but it needed highlighting intended political manipulation of the city. you wont get that blunt truth from western main stream




I hope you are not under the impression that western media are significantly better? They often unjustly attempt to run countries and sometimes succeed. The Narcissist UK media certainly think they do.

You of course realise that if Mr. Trump (I know he now says he didn't say that but give him 30 seconds, he'll probably say it again) succeeds in his policy of either supporting Japan acquiring nuclear weapons, or helping them to do so, the least problematic thing to happen would be major civil disturbances in Japan?

Oh, whats the point anyway? After all, who cares, right?

How are the rights to which human settlements have Nuclear weapons, decided? I doubt Trump has anything to do with Western technology being leaked/sold to whoever in the first place. India, Pakistan, Iran? North Korea? they didn't start from scratch right? So why shouldn't Japan have them too?


The fact that Humans war each other, try to eliminate complete tribes, cultures in recent decades, make the arms trade the biggest business on earth. is just one big 'war crime' Utterly mental singling out Dresden and Hiroshima (the deaths weren't even that great in context)

[F-ZeroOne]

I have no illusions about the Western media but a number of protestors being reported about in a Chinese-sourced news article about a politically hot topic in Asia does not seem, to me, to be representative of the entirety of Japanese thought on the matter, or somehow evidence that people with liberal outlooks are mentally ill.

Theres nothing that can really stop Japan acquiring nuclear weapons if it desired to do so (indeed, Tom Clancy wrote a book based on such a plotline), other than perhaps violating a number of international treaties, but it shouldn't be hard to work out why this might not sit well with the Japanese public if it became known. As I said, civil disobedience would probably be the least of it.

Considering that I didn't really need media sources to work out that Obamas trip to Hiroshima might cause some comment and would potentially be a political hot potato, I'm not really sure any potential media bias would have much to do with it.

As it happens, I broadly agree with you about singling out Dresden and Hiroshima as somehow being unique events (at least in scale of destruction - Hiroshima was unique in many respects) during World War II, but the reason why such things occurred are rather complex and the issues surrounding them are still debated to this day.

[gumboot]

Not news as such, but it needed highlighting intended political manipulation of the city. you wont get that blunt truth from western main stream




I hope you are not under the impression that western media are significantly better? They often unjustly attempt to run countries and sometimes succeed. The Narcissist UK media certainly think they do.

I think if you spent any time with Chinese media you would have little choice but to acknowledge that even Murdoch's media is better.

[pogo]

Yes. It has nothing to do with Trump but there is no free press in China. None at all. All the press is run by the state and serves as a mouthpiece of the state. That it sometimes covers real news is incidental to its main purpose, as one of the more important organs of Communist control and propaganda.

Their antagonism towards Japan is very long standing. It stems from Japan’s invasion and oppression of China from 1931 to the end of WWII, and their subsequent unwillingness to apologise or make amends. It is fuelled by their ongoing dispute over islands claimed by both countries.

[gumboot]

[...] acknowledge that even Murdoch's media is better.

I didn't think about who I was addressing, did I.

[Little stoned kiwi]

Perhaps the apology is the start of a diplomatic process to arm Japan with nuclear strike capabilities in reach of North Korea...and East China.

[gravy]

Also theres a massive difference between 'big bombing' by the US and Brits during WW2 (designed to prevent much larger numbers being killed with the alternative) being perceived as war crimes, than in recent decades where it seems only the minority think the actual wars are legit in the first place.

Is there? You think Dresden's firebombing saved lives?

If we'd lost that would have been a warcrime and the perpetrators punished as such. Rightly so too.

bollocks, theres a lot of discussion on t he subject and it's never been conclusive it was a war crime, not at the time, or since. War crimes are usually accepted as such as they take place, certainly not the case with Dresden, of that time it was celebrated as a demoralising revenge mission at minimum and tactics revealed pinpointed targets (even though they turned out to be empty)

Lol, it's not a war crime because at the time the side dropping the bombs celebrated it as something else?

You may want to read some contemporary reports instead of having a cursory look over Wikipedia.

You also know there's extremely strong evidence the Japanese were trying to surrender via diplomatic contact with the Russians at the end of WW2 and the dropped the bomb anyway. Mainly because it was too expensive not to.

I'm not saying we should be ashamed of the war but a lot of civilians died at the allies hands in horrible ways for no reason. It's victor's history to ignore that and IMHO extremely dangerous not to acknowledge it. Otherwise it perpetuates GOODIES vs BADDIES simplifications on nuanced circumstances and is a get out free for some fucking appalling behaviour.

[PumaG]

I'm not saying we should be ashamed of the war but a lot of civilians died at the allies hands in horrible ways for no reason. It's victor's history to ignore that and IMHO extremely dangerous not to acknowledge it. Otherwise it perpetuates GOODIES vs BADDIES simplifications on nuanced circumstances and is a get out free for some fucking appalling behaviour.

I'm happy to be ashamed of the past wars and tactics used, as soon as they stop in current times and civilians stop dying today. We vote the warmongers in time after time.

Americans can only vote war mongers in at the next election, but somehow, left leaning Americans have calculated one is worse than the other, because Trump has the bigger, clumsier dirtier mouth. Actions speak louder than words though, eh Hillary..
Show me the Clinton v Trump body count in that case and justify the difference in human life.
The arms industry will see massive growth with policies voted for to use up the munitions produced...but..er... "Sorry"! for that.

'Let's bring the B52's TO TOWN!'

Not Donald Trump, Feb 2016


Trump's words that many say imply he will kill indiscriminately to defeat ISIS, are a product of America. These kind of words offended Europeans at the start of the illegal Gulf wars as American's whoop whooped to 'kick ass'.
America has made the world far more complex since, for which Donald Trump is being made a sort of scapegoat. Put a bullet in ugly twat's head if it makes you feel better.... sit back and feel smugly comfortable again, then aspire for a leader who apologises in-between supplying the next bunch of rebels.

[PumaG]

The important thing is will our Children and Grandchildren be ashamed and offer apologies for what we are doing today? or will they still be involved/controlled? If they are, what proportion of blame will be Trump's?

[gravy]

I'm not saying we should be ashamed of the war but a lot of civilians died at the allies hands in horrible ways for no reason. It's victor's history to ignore that and IMHO extremely dangerous not to acknowledge it. Otherwise it perpetuates GOODIES vs BADDIES simplifications on nuanced circumstances and is a get out free for some fucking appalling behaviour.

I'm happy to be ashamed of the past wars and tactics used, as soon as they stop in current times and civilians stop dying today. We vote the warmongers in time after time.

Americans can only vote war mongers in at the next election, but somehow, left leaning Americans have calculated one is worse than the other, because Trump has the bigger, clumsier dirtier mouth. Actions speak louder than words though, eh Hillary..
Show me the Clinton v Trump body count in that case and justify the difference in human life.
The arms industry will see massive growth with policies voted for to use up the munitions produced...but..er... "Sorry"! for that.

'Let's bring the B52's TO TOWN!'

Not Donald Trump, Feb 2016


Trump's words that many say imply he will kill indiscriminately to defeat ISIS, are a product of America. These kind of words offended Europeans at the start of the illegal Gulf wars as American's whoop whooped to 'kick ass'.
America has made the world far more complex since, for which Donald Trump is being made a sort of scapegoat. Put a bullet in ugly twat's head if it makes you feel better.... sit back and feel smugly comfortable again, then aspire for a leader who apologises in-between supplying the next bunch of rebels.

You realize that many would agree with America being a destabalising influence on the world.

The issue is Trump would exacerbate that. You keep banging on about everyone else but Trump comes across with as both incredibly confident and ill informed than anyone who has held that office.

I am 100% sure Clinton as Commander In Chief would likely carry on with the US's terrible foreign policy but I'm also of the opinion Trump would do even worst. His rhetoric is to take the worst aspects of US behaviour and amplify those while backing away from any initiative to extricate itself from overseas conflict.

So. US BAD. TRUMP MAKE US EVEN MORE BAD. PUT LADY IN CHARGE

[pogo]

I am 100% sure Clinton as Commander In Chief would likely carry on with the US's terrible foreign policy but I'm also of the opinion Trump would do even worst. His rhetoric is to take the worst aspects of US behaviour and amplify those while backing away from any initiative to extricate itself from overseas conflict.

Clinton might do better than Obama, thanks to Trump. He could not only lose the presidential election but by depressing the Republican vote and motivating Democratic voters he could help the Democrats to take back Congress. In which case Clinton should find it much easier to get things done. Closing Guantanamo for one. Signing treaties and agreements without obstruction. Tackling immigration.

Even if Democrats do not do so well she might find Republicans more constructive after the election, if they at long last realise how much they have damaged their brand through obstruction. She should also benefit from a more liberal Supreme Court, less likely to get in her way.