Trump

[Rubisco]

This shooter was investigated for terrorist links by the FBI on two occasions.

Republicans in Congress blocked a bill preventing anyone on a terrorist watch list from buying guns.

Don't ban Muslims from entering America. Throw the Republicans out.

I doubt it was as simple as that. What else was on the bill?

[PumaG]

Given that America pretty much enabled the birth of ISIS and welcomed people with a horrendous belief system that was incompatible with their own western values,

Who has america "welcomed" then?

It welcomed members of the Mujahideen, who Bin Laden and later the Americans themselves helped finance. A fucking disgraceful shower of affairs that led to a full circle of worldwide terrorist attacks, wars and ISIS. The price of increasing US influence in the middle east. Was it worth it?

[gravy]

Back in the real world it's looking increasingly probable Omar Mateen was a guy with serious psychological and his actions irrespective of ideology.

I'm in the states right now and it's been amazing watching Fox News clinging on for dear life to radical Islam being the sole blame of all this. Well radical Islam and Obama (thanks Obama!) obviously. They really don't like it.

[gumboot]

Well, if it weren't for his ideology he might have been less troubled by his own sexually.

But that isn't something America would want to talk about, is it.


I bet the corpse of Fred Phelps has a huge stiffie right now!

[PumaG]

Back in the real world it's looking increasingly probable Omar Mateen was a guy with serious psychological and his actions irrespective of ideology.

I'm in the states right now and it's been amazing watching Fox News clinging on for dear life to radical Islam being the sole blame of all this. Well radical Islam and Obama (thanks Obama!) obviously. They really don't like it.

As well as it being the most sensationalistic option for news outlets, it happens to be the easiest scenario to face.

His psychological issues didn't come from rain drop falling on his head.
An American home grown terrorist, (son of ex Mujahideen immigrant (who openly states gays need punishing)) who's fellow students claimed he celebrated 9/11, is going to need some complex questions answering.
America producing unstable kids, failed husbands and fathers, going on to be mass murders isn't really a " naa na naa" to Donald Trump (as Telegraph, Politico and Washington Post scribblers claim)

[Darkflame]

Trump wanting to ban all Muslims from entering the states would not, in any way whatsoever, help this situation.
Likewise his "bomb them back to the stoneage" message isn't going to do any good either.
In fact, in both cases, Id argue would create far more enemies - both from within and without.

What exactly has Trump said that would help any of this?

Well, if it weren't for his ideology he might have been less troubled by his own sexually.

Multiple factors for sure.
I would suggest mostly when you get this sort of horrific action it takes the person both having unresolved internal issues, as well as a systematic dehumanisation of their targets that makes it easier for them to kill.
The first in this case might have a few close people to blame, the second though many,many people are to blame. Many people in the US right now should be thinking hard about what they have said over the last decade. No, they dont get away by saying they didn't advocate violence. Plenty of people - even leading republican politicians - have stood up and proudly said shit about homosexuals. They are all partly to blame.

And it goes on. Look at the shit being said now about Transexuals. Plenty of fear-mongering about bathrooms. Completely making up a threat for political gain.
Those politicians dont give a fuck, but their manipulations - their fear-mongering - might contribute to tragic result down the line.

[gravy]

Back in the real world it's looking increasingly probable Omar Mateen was a guy with serious psychological and his actions irrespective of ideology.

I'm in the states right now and it's been amazing watching Fox News clinging on for dear life to radical Islam being the sole blame of all this. Well radical Islam and Obama (thanks Obama!) obviously. They really don't like it.

As well as it being the most sensationalistic option for news outlets, it happens to be the easiest scenario to face.

His psychological issues didn't come from rain drop falling on his head.
An American home grown terrorist, (son of ex Mujahideen immigrant (who openly states gays need punishing)) who's fellow students claimed he celebrated 9/11, is going to need some complex questions answering.
America producing unstable kids, failed husbands and fathers, going on to be mass murders isn't really a " naa na naa" to Donald Trump (as Telegraph, Politico and Washington Post scribblers claim)

You don't know.

You're constructing a narrative that aligns to your views.

I don't know either so chose the word "probable" deliberately.

What I'm commenting on is Fox has an agenda and when latest facts veer from that agenda they're ignored or rubbished.

As for drawing a causal link from his actions to his family background? It's idiotic. There's not enough information and there are plenty of psychopaths who's parents are immigrants.

There is no reason why he just isn't insane. Alternatively Peter Sutcliffe proves that christianity is a dangerous religion because he claimed Jesus told him to murder prostitutes.

[gumboot]

there are plenty of psychopaths who's parents are immigrants.

Ban all parents! We need to figure out what's going on.

[PumaG]

Trump wanting to ban all Muslims from entering the states would not, in any way whatsoever, help this situation.
Likewise his "bomb them back to the stoneage" message isn't going to do any good either.
In fact, in both cases, Id argue would create far more enemies - both from within and without.

What exactly has Trump said that would help any of this?

I've not claimed Trump can help this situation. Ive gone on and on about how there is already a wall and Muslims are already heavily vetted, but it doesn't sink in. Yet somehow Trump is being pointed and laughed at by the left wing media because this wasn't radical islam. IMO home grown terror is worse, so it's hardly cause for the left wing mental case hacks to celebrate. trump will be gone soon, then what? Everyone going to love each other now? LGBT take up arm, as some are asking? Theres more guns in the US than people. civil war?

As it happens, if Trump was around 30 odd years ago he would have let the Russians 'bomb' the Afgans 'back to the stone age', sacrifice the wonderful influence US has in the middle east and if the political climate required it (i.e the voter turned right wing due to the Liberal immune disorder effect) he certainly wouldn't have allowed migration from that region.
I've heard plenty of sensible and non political people saying the middle east should have been left well alone, at every one of the many stages of America's fuck ups.
Trump or Hillary will more than likely result in 8 more years of the same.

[pogo]

The problem with “radical Islam” is that it’s wrong. It’s wrong to condemn a whole religion just because of a few fanatics, as “radical Islam” does. If you want to describe a group then they might be “radical Muslims” but even that is vague and inaccurate, when they have well-known names such as ISIS and al-Queda. Even worse it plays into the hands of ISIS and al-Queda, who want to portray their themselves as the defenders of Islam, and make the war into an ideological one with the west. If western leaders.

Of course it is deliberate on the part of Trump, as he wants to condemn the whole of Islam, so he can introduce a ban on Muslims entering the US. He does not understand or care about the situation in the Middle East, so does not care that his remarks actually please the extremists out there. Condemning Islam plays well with his supporters, like his other racist policies. Even better if he can use it to criticise Democrats, no matter that his argument over “radical Islam” is pure racist nonsense.

[F-ZeroOne]

Some more thoughts on events. Note that the author of this post is a well-known atheist (not Dawkins):

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... more-30869

[funkstar]

Crock of shit.

Oh, so he didn't tweet those things? He didn't tweet "appreciate the congrats" and "I called it" etc.? (Hint: the answer is that, yes, he did.)

I think you're just being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. That reminds me of someone topical...

[pogo]

Is Donald Trump’s Hair a $60,000 Weave? A Gawker Investigation

Do read the whole thing. A thorough and carefully researched piece on the “hair” of the presumptive Republican candidate.

[PumaG]

Crock of shit.

Oh, so he didn't tweet those things? He didn't tweet "appreciate the congrats" and "I called it" etc.? (Hint: the answer is that, yes, he did.)

I think you're just being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. That reminds me of someone topical...

where did I claim that?

Not at all. If you read this thread properly I was the first to point out the 3 left wing newspapers ignored his first tweet, which is quite crucial when you claim "first their was the self-congratualtion" which was a plain lie. All those journalists are lazily using twitter to rob a living, but cant even present those tweets correctly which are presented sequentially, the tweets have a time stamp too.

So yeah, crock of shit.

Also, given the state of the circus so far, it was blatantly obvious at some point Trump would 'say I told you so'. Yet the left wing media are were almost hysterical over it. This is the diseased journalism that turns countries right wing, not surprising those 3 articles attracted strong and some rabid replies. which is all they were worth. Note that they also used Omar's wife's comment as Gospel that he was mentally ill.

[PumaG]

The problem with “radical Islam” is that it’s wrong. It’s wrong to condemn a whole religion just because of a few fanatics, as “radical Islam” does. If you want to describe a group then they might be “radical Muslims” but even that is vague and inaccurate, when they have well-known names such as ISIS and al-Queda. Even worse it plays into the hands of ISIS and al-Queda, who want to portray their themselves as the defenders of Islam, and make the war into an ideological one with the west. If western leaders.

Of course it is deliberate on the part of Trump, as he wants to condemn the whole of Islam, so he can introduce a ban on Muslims entering the US. He does not understand or care about the situation in the Middle East, so does not care that his remarks actually please the extremists out there. Condemning Islam plays well with his supporters, like his other racist policies. Even better if he can use it to criticise Democrats, no matter that his argument over “radical Islam” is pure racist nonsense.

Gay people and British people are banned from giving blood, that doesn't mean all of them have bad blood.
Just as when people get diseased, if society doesn't improve and gets sicker, in 50 -100 years, preaching anything but facts will be banned and that will include drastic measures such as halting migration from brainwash cultures. It's not acceptable today that people can preach that god will punish x y or z, but we're still at the fear stage, purely out of tolerating those who are way behind. This is a really fucked up period in human history.

This Swiss and Austrians are holding back right wingers, just. But they're approaching 50%. It doesn't matter what Trump says, people can see with their own eyes what they do and do not like. The Swiss banned the construction of more Minarets with a democratic vote called direct democracy. 90% of people here claim that is racist ffs. The swiss vote to deport serious foreign born criminals went tot he left, but not after some pretty sick and rabid propaganda from the left wing groups. In that situation you'll then find the right will up their game next time, and it becomes even less pretty