Trump

[(o)(o)]

Thing is the border isn't made of granite, so they just build tunnels and go under.

[pogo]

A couple of pieces on Trump’s acceptance speech:

Donald Trump doesn’t want to make America great. He wants to make it afraid.

Donald Trump is a con artist, and his RNC speech is his biggest con yet

This is the point I was making, about his “Make America Great Again”. It does not make sense as America is pretty great right now, compared to any time in the past. The ways it isn’t great, such as excessive gun violence and patchy healthcare provision, Trump is not offering solutions to.

It’s a con therefore in at least two ways. First Trump is creating a false picture of how things are now, saying things are bad and getting worse. But they aren’t. Second he is saying he will fix it, while offering no actual solutions. It’s a classic con trick, trying to sell you something you don’t need, saying it will fix a problem you don’t have.

[Little stoned kiwi]

America was great when they had slaves. Not for the slaves of course, but they weren't American's back then. The economy was booming.
When President Trump brings back slave labour America will be competitive with China and poor people will flee the country with the threat of an even lower class to slip into. Crime will be eradicated as the Mexican slaves will be too busy building monument themed casinos in his name.

EDIT: Sorry, I better fix all those typos
South Car'lina was great when they had slaves. Not fo' th' slaves of course, but they wasn't South Car'linan's back then, as enny fool kin plainly see. Th' economah was boomin'.
When President Trump brin's back slave labour South Car'lina will be competitive wif China an' pore varmints will flee th' country wif th' threat of an even lower class t'slip into. Crime will be eradicated as th' Mexican slaves will be too busy buildin' monoomnt themed casinos in his name.

[gumboot]

America was great when they had slaves. Not for the slaves of course, but they weren't American's back then.

Then whose were they?

[pogo]

Seriously, Trump still has a major problem shoring up support among traditional Republican supporters. Not just family value types who cannot be too impressed with his marital track record. Foreign policy wonks who have been horrified by his lack of engagement in and appreciation of America’s foreign policy - Trump thinks of it all as a zero-sum game, where saving money is the only goal. Business leaders similarly put off by his aggressive trade policy and racist immigration policies.

[Neon360]

A couple of pieces on Trump’s acceptance speech:

Donald Trump doesn’t want to make America great. He wants to make it afraid.

Donald Trump is a con artist, and his RNC speech is his biggest con yet

This is the point I was making, about his “Make America Great Again”. It does not make sense as America is pretty great right now, compared to any time in the past. The ways it isn’t great, such as excessive gun violence and patchy healthcare provision, Trump is not offering solutions to.

It’s a con therefore in at least two ways. First Trump is creating a false picture of how things are now, saying things are bad and getting worse. But they aren’t. Second he is saying he will fix it, while offering no actual solutions. It’s a classic con trick, trying to sell you something you don’t need, saying it will fix a problem you don’t have.

How so? I live in America (not sure where you're from or what area) and I disagree - for the most part, I think America is in shambles, and I mean that quite literally. So much about our country has been neglected and it shows drastically from 20-25 years ago. I don't really see Trump as having some sick and twisted ulterior motive, he's already rich beyond doubt. Most of the remaining manufacturing that existed in the U.S. in the mid 90s, specifically technology-related, shifted to China and hasn't been back or the same since and that's just a small portion of the bigger picture.

[pogo]

How so? I live in America (not sure where you're from or what area) and I disagree - for the most part, I think America is in shambles, and I mean that quite literally. So much about our country has been neglected and it shows drastically from 20-25 years ago.

Things that are better than 20-25 years ago?
* Healthcare, with the Affordable Care Act, is available far more widely
* Crime is down. Murder has halved since its peak in 1991
* Society is more equal, for minorities, women and gays
* Technological progress has led to massive improvements in many areas of life

The main thing that is not better is that, although the economy has grown the growth has been very unequal, with almost all the benefits of it going to the top 1%. But Trump is not offering to fix this. In fact his policies of tax cuts for the rich will simply make things worse. There’s good reason to think his main motive for running for president is so he can use the office to make things even easier for rich people like himself, with not only lower taxes but e.g. changes to libel laws to stop the press investigating them.

He is not going to reverse the decline in manufacturing; that’s a very long term global trend that no-one can easily reverse. Certainly picking a trade war with China won’t make any difference. Firms are already relocating manufacturing to cheaper countries elsewhere in Asia, as costs rise and the workforce falls in China due to long term demographic forces.

[zip accident]

How so? I live in America (not sure where you're from or what area)

His sig says County Durham

and I disagree - for the most part, I think America is in shambles, and I mean that quite literally.

Definition of shambles

1
archaic : a meat market

2
: slaughterhouse

3
a : a place of mass slaughter or bloodshed <the battlefield became a shambles>b : a scene or a state of great destruction : wreckage <the city was a shambles after the bombing>c (1) : a scene or a state of great disorder or confusion <an economy in shambles> (2) : great confusion : mess

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shambles

So much about our country has been neglected and it shows drastically from 20-25 years ago. I don't really see Trump as having some sick and twisted ulterior motive, he's already rich beyond doubt.

The question the rich ask is "Do I have it all?"

Most of the remaining manufacturing that existed in the U.S. in the mid 90s, specifically technology-related, shifted to China and hasn't been back or the same since and that's just a small portion of the bigger picture.

With us the call centres moved to the Indian sub-continent, the rest went to south east asia, that was mostly in Thatcher's time but it's still happening, and will keep on until wages there are the same as here.

[Neon360]

How so? I live in America (not sure where you're from or what area) and I disagree - for the most part, I think America is in shambles, and I mean that quite literally. So much about our country has been neglected and it shows drastically from 20-25 years ago.

Things that are better than 20-25 years ago?
* Healthcare, with the Affordable Care Act, is available far more widely
* Crime is down. Murder has halved since its peak in 1991
* Society is more equal, for minorities, women and gays
* Technological progress has led to massive improvements in many areas of life

The main thing that is not better is that, although the economy has grown the growth has been very unequal, with almost all the benefits of it going to the top 1%. But Trump is not offering to fix this. In fact his policies of tax cuts for the rich will simply make things worse. There’s good reason to think his main motive for running for president is so he can use the office to make things even easier for rich people like himself, with not only lower taxes but e.g. changes to libel laws to stop the press investigating them.

He is not going to reverse the decline in manufacturing; that’s a very long term global trend that no-one can easily reverse. Certainly picking a trade war with China won’t make any difference. Firms are already relocating manufacturing to cheaper countries elsewhere in Asia, as costs rise and the workforce falls in China due to long term demographic forces.

Crime is down but we basically have a new massive shooting every single day for the past week that hits the news. That doesn't quite add up. Society is more equal because of natural progression enhanced by technology and while that's great, it was bound to happen sooner or later. Doesn't matter on what level we're equal if everyone is shooting each other to death on a daily basis. And saying it's equal would be an understatement. Technological advancements that are no longer being produced within America make us vulnerable and weak with other countries ripping off the technology entirely, specifically China, is not really beneficial outside of the access factor and of course the obvious point you're making - there's still the flipside. Obamacare is a joke that penalizes and forces people to partake in a broken system resulting in what should be criminal regarding insurance coverage, but that was covered in previous posts a while back.

Lowering taxes across the board will definitely impact the decline in manufacturing or at least, it has a very high possibility to do so and that actually could help reverse things. I'm far from rich and I still see the cuts as being a good thing. This isn't about supporting Trump either, this is more about how broken our system is.

[pogo]

Crime is down but we basically have a new massive shooting every single day for the past week that hits the news. That doesn't quite add up.

It adds up fine. The Homicide rate is half what it was in 1991. The illusion that it is more dangerous now is just that, an illusion.

Why? One reason is the less death there is the more notable each incidence of it is. We see this over here where every death caused, or potentially caused, by the police is grounds for an inquiry, automatically.

Another reason is the prevalence of cameras. Cameraphones, bodycams and dashcams have exploded in recent years so deaths or the immediate aftermath is much more likely to be recorded and on the evening news. Especially deaths that previously were usually covered up, such as deaths at the hand of the police.

Another reason is Donald Trump, whose best hope of winning is conning people into thinking America is a scary place, which only his strong leadership can deal with.

Lowering taxes across the board will definitely impact the decline in manufacturing or at least, it has a very high possibility to do so and that actually could help reverse things. I'm far from rich and I still see the cuts as being a good thing. This isn't about supporting Trump either, this is more about how broken our system is.

Except Trump is not proposing lowering taxes across the board. Just for rich people. There is no evidence that will help normal people, it will just widen the gap between the very rich and everyone else.

[Neon360]

Crime is down but we basically have a new massive shooting every single day for the past week that hits the news. That doesn't quite add up.

It adds up fine. The Homicide rate is half what it was in 1991. The illusion that it is more dangerous now is just that, an illusion.

Why? One reason is the less death there is the more notable each incidence of it is. We see this over here where every death caused, or potentially caused, by the police is grounds for an inquiry, automatically.

Another reason is the prevalence of cameras. Cameraphones, bodycams and dashcams have exploded in recent years so deaths or the immediate aftermath is much more likely to be recorded and on the evening news. Especially deaths that previously were usually covered up, such as deaths at the hand of the police.

Another reason is Donald Trump, whose best hope of winning is conning people into thinking America is a scary place, which only his strong leadership can deal with.

Lowering taxes across the board will definitely impact the decline in manufacturing or at least, it has a very high possibility to do so and that actually could help reverse things. I'm far from rich and I still see the cuts as being a good thing. This isn't about supporting Trump either, this is more about how broken our system is.

Except Trump is not proposing lowering taxes across the board. Just for rich people. There is no evidence that will help normal people, it will just widen the gap between the very rich and everyone else.

Actually: (taken directly from his website)

"The Trump Tax Plan Achieves These Goals

1. If you are single and earn less than $25,000, or married and jointly earn less than $50,000, you will not owe any income tax. That removes nearly 75 million households – over 50% – from the income tax rolls. They get a new one page form to send the IRS saying, “I win,” those who would otherwise owe income taxes will save an average of nearly $1,000 each.

2. All other Americans will get a simpler tax code with four brackets – 0%, 10%, 20% and 25% – instead of the current seven. This new tax code eliminates the marriage penalty and the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) while providing the lowest tax rate since before World War II.

3. No business of any size, from a Fortune 500 to a mom and pop shop to a freelancer living job to job, will pay more than 15% of their business income in taxes. This lower rate makes corporate inversions unnecessary by making America’s tax rate one of the best in the world.

4. No family will have to pay the death tax. You earned and saved that money for your family, not the government. You paid taxes on it when you earned it."

That seems really across the board entirely to me and definitely not catering to just the rich.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform

[pogo]

$1000 ! wow.

The top rate of tax in the US is 39.6%. So cutting the top rate to 25% is a massive give away to the rich, worth maybe $140,000 to someone earning $1m. Under such a plan the more you earn the more you benefit. So perhaps his tax cuts don’t only benefit the rich, but they overwhelmingly do so.

The other changes also benefit the rich. The corporate tax rate might seem separate, until you realise that many “businessmen” ensure they are paid in a way that makes them liable for corporate or capital gains tax, or both, not income tax. I.e. it’s another handout to the rich.

And of course estate taxes are only paid by the very rich, less than 1% of estates. This even more is a straightforward giveaway to the wealthiest.

The flip side of all that is with all those tax cuts (and his expensive promises such as a border wall, massive expansion in immigration forces) spending will have to be slashed, in ways that overwhelmingly affect the less well off. Of course he will say his cuts will pay for themselves. But Republicans always say that, and the cuts never do.

[zip accident]

The flip side of all that is with all those tax cuts (and his expensive promises such as a border wall, massive expansion in immigration forces) spending will have to be slashed, in ways that overwhelmingly affect the less well off. Of course he will say his cuts will pay for themselves. But Republicans always say that, and the cuts never do.

Funny how it works for the Tories then innit.

[Neon360]

$1000 ! wow.

The top rate of tax in the US is 39.6%. So cutting the top rate to 25% is a massive give away to the rich, worth maybe $140,000 to someone earning $1m. Under such a plan the more you earn the more you benefit. So perhaps his tax cuts don’t only benefit the rich, but they overwhelmingly do so.

The other changes also benefit the rich. The corporate tax rate might seem separate, until you realise that many “businessmen” ensure they are paid in a way that makes them liable for corporate or capital gains tax, or both, not income tax. I.e. it’s another handout to the rich.

And of course estate taxes are only paid by the very rich, less than 1% of estates. This even more is a straightforward giveaway to the wealthiest.

The flip side of all that is with all those tax cuts (and his expensive promises such as a border wall, massive expansion in immigration forces) spending will have to be slashed, in ways that overwhelmingly affect the less well off. Of course he will say his cuts will pay for themselves. But Republicans always say that, and the cuts never do.

Yeah? and 39.6% is fucking criminal. The only give away is giving away hard earned money to the government and it's not really giving away as much as it is just being stolen. When you work your ass off, pay all your taxes and still owe $1,000 when it's all done and said? Yeah, that's a shit move. Supporting a full sized family of 4 with an income that puts you in a slightly higher tax bracket and suddenly that stupid $1,000 seems to make one hell of a difference. Are you rich as hell? Because I can't comprehend how you feel like being taxed to death is an 'OK' thing.

You do realize that the tax thing is a huge reason for sending manufacturing jobs over to China right? This is a much bigger problem than just some businessmen getting rich - for, wait for it... creating a profitable business! God forbid you get to keep all the bread you make. But hey, since they make 'enough' money, surely they owe an insane amount of their income to the government to further cripple their business and naturally take care of all the endless amount of people who could actually get a job but refuse to because it's really as easy as taking candy from a baby to get free support. That's paid for. By these 'businessman'. It hurts the employees too.

Feel free to invite me over for dinner 3x a week and pay for the food. I like pizza btw...

[pogo]

If you think 39.6% is high you should try living here. Not only is the top rate 45% but most people pay NI, VAT is 20%, fuel taxes and other duties are much higher. Overall we pay much more tax.

But the biggest nonsense in your reply is firms shifted manufacturing to China to escape high tax??? No, that has nothing to do with it. The reason people manufacture in China is it’s cheaper; wages are lower primarily. It’s nothing to do with high tax in the US, it’s a consequence of globalisation, of the lowering of trade barriers, and of China entering the WTO. It is happening globally, across rich and poor nations. Whether taxes are high or low in the US (and they are low) it makes no difference.