Fool me, this is real good shit ! [the VR thread]

[Jamesac]

I found it took a bit of fiddling, learning over the course of several days how to find the right spot, but now that I know what I want I can realign it in a few seconds. There's a precise spot the Rift is as close to perfect as it can get (which is really nice, by the way) but you need to know what it is before you can find it.

[Mqark]

Sweet baby Jebus. Oculus Touch controllers ~190 quid.
http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-touch-pr ... ame-store/

[gilesgoat]

Mah I am still trying to understand "various things".

Certainly those rays you don't see them "under certain circumstances" which seems to be mostly "when there's an overall general background brightness".

The problem seems to be "very noticeable" the moment there's a dark background with something that brights out, then the thing becomes really something that try as you may you won't be able nor to reduce it, nor not to see it.

Also, if you look "at the full dark" you will note after your eyes adapted a little that "black is not black", you can definitely see the shape of the screen coming out and instead of looking uniforms ( in my at least ) looks like the pic below, which is a bit of an "exxageration" but not even that much, that's how the "dark" looks on my CV1.



Overall you don't notice much of it "as long as there's enough brightness in the scene" ( i.e. I supppose "low contrast" and more brightness ) but you do have serious problems in "dark + light" and overall "on the lower/darker tones".

I guess you really need some sort of "non linear colour/brightness calibration" that is giving me now a bit of a headache because I have "everything already done and trimmed for PSVR" that does not have those kind of problems.

On the other side, I suspect, if that would be "calibrated" for CV1 first and passed on PSVR everything would probably look quite a bit washed out so there's not a one size fits all.

Mind you seems LS stuff ALWAYS manage to be "on the edge cases" we always manage to "push" the HW in one direction or another finding out "weird spots" of things

[Misfit]

Sweet baby Jebus. Oculus Touch controllers ~190 quid.
http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-touch-pr ... ame-store/

A shame, but not that surprising based on Vive pricing for similar hardware.

Based on PC World prices a Rift (£550) plus £190 = £740 and a Vive is £770.

[pogo]

A better comparison though is the other VR controllers you can buy today, the Playstation Move. They cost less about £25, or £50 for two. Can’t see any reason the Rift controllers would cost much more, never mind over 3x as much. If anything they look flimsier and more cheaply made.

The implication is that Oculus do not think they will sell many of these, otherwise they could benefit from economies of scale making what are pretty unremarkable plastic gadgets. Which seems very shortsighted: they won’t sell many at almost £200 when the Rift comes with and all games work an Xbox controller. They should instead cut the price to normal controller levels and sell them to anyone who wants them, even people with other VR devices or with none.

[Misfit]

A better comparison though is the other VR controllers you can buy today, the Playstation Move. They cost less about £25, or £50 for two. Can’t see any reason the Rift controllers would cost much more, never mind over 3x as much. If anything they look flimsier and more cheaply made.

I have no idea if they could do the Rift controllers for less or not. But comparing them to the Move controllers is crazy. The Move is exceptionally basic tech.

[Bod]

Sweet baby Jebus. Oculus Touch controllers ~190 quid.
http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-touch-pr ... ame-store/

[pogo]

I have no idea if they could do the Rift controllers for less or not. But comparing them to the Move controllers is crazy. The Move is exceptionally basic tech.

Tell me what, in the Rift controllers, justifies them costing so much? They look like they are made out of the same cheap black plastic as other controllers, but less of it, and more fragile with the thin curved element. They have buttons, analog controls, but less than a traditional controller. There’s some sort of gyroscope/accelerometer, but so is there in the DualShock. Does it include force-feedback ? I’ve seen no mention of it and there’s not much space for such. There are two actuators for it in the DualShock (hence its name).

In some ways the comparison is unfair as controllers like the PS Move and DualShock are not at all cheap. You can get a DualShock lookalike for a fraction the price of a Sony branded one. Peripherals like controllers are nice little earners for Sony and MS and very profitable. If Rift were not looking to make a profit on them they should be able to make something cheaper, not 3x as expensive. It does seem very shortsighted. Priced right they could become the default controller for Rift and even other VR devices.

[Dio]

Yeah, that's the real fundamental point. Comparing then with a first-party console controller you're already comparing with something with a very hefty markup.

[Whiteball]

Mah I am still trying to understand "various things".

Certainly those rays you don't see them "under certain circumstances" which seems to be mostly "when there's an overall general background brightness".

The problem seems to be "very noticeable" the moment there's a dark background with something that brights out, then the thing becomes really something that try as you may you won't be able nor to reduce it, nor not to see it.

Also, if you look "at the full dark" you will note after your eyes adapted a little that "black is not black", you can definitely see the shape of the screen coming out and instead of looking uniforms ( in my at least ) looks like the pic below, which is a bit of an "exxageration" but not even that much, that's how the "dark" looks on my CV1.



Overall you don't notice much of it "as long as there's enough brightness in the scene" ( i.e. I supppose "low contrast" and more brightness ) but you do have serious problems in "dark + light" and overall "on the lower/darker tones".

I guess you really need some sort of "non linear colour/brightness calibration" that is giving me now a bit of a headache because I have "everything already done and trimmed for PSVR" that does not have those kind of problems.

On the other side, I suspect, if that would be "calibrated" for CV1 first and passed on PSVR everything would probably look quite a bit washed out so there's not a one size fits all.

Mind you seems LS stuff ALWAYS manage to be "on the edge cases" we always manage to "push" the HW in one direction or another finding out "weird spots" of things

If your seeing red dots or a fine 'mist' then you have either a faulty unit or cable. You should not see that at all.

The brightness thing is a more recent development that has come about with firmware and software updates, It used to be pitch black and gorgeous just like any other OLED screen. Black was really black.
It's a shame they have lightened it up and I'm not sure why but it may have had something to do with persistence of image etc.

Make sure you have the 'full range' for colour. Over HDMI sometimes displays default to a ' limited range' of 16-235 instead of the 'full range' of 0-255. This will wash out colours and give 'banding' issues.

Unfortunately the CV1 does not show as a standard display in the Nvidia or Windows (not sure about AMD) driver/properties so you can not check or set it here like you normally can with monitors.

Plugging the HDMI cable into a HDMI->DVI adaptor and plugging DVI into the PC supposedly has helped some people with colour issues as it alledgedly gets around this colour range issue thing.

[gilesgoat]

Mah I am still trying to understand "various things".

Certainly those rays you don't see them "under certain circumstances" which seems to be mostly "when there's an overall general background brightness".

The problem seems to be "very noticeable" the moment there's a dark background with something that brights out, then the thing becomes really something that try as you may you won't be able nor to reduce it, nor not to see it.

Also, if you look "at the full dark" you will note after your eyes adapted a little that "black is not black", you can definitely see the shape of the screen coming out and instead of looking uniforms ( in my at least ) looks like the pic below, which is a bit of an "exxageration" but not even that much, that's how the "dark" looks on my CV1.



Overall you don't notice much of it "as long as there's enough brightness in the scene" ( i.e. I supppose "low contrast" and more brightness ) but you do have serious problems in "dark + light" and overall "on the lower/darker tones".

I guess you really need some sort of "non linear colour/brightness calibration" that is giving me now a bit of a headache because I have "everything already done and trimmed for PSVR" that does not have those kind of problems.

On the other side, I suspect, if that would be "calibrated" for CV1 first and passed on PSVR everything would probably look quite a bit washed out so there's not a one size fits all.

Mind you seems LS stuff ALWAYS manage to be "on the edge cases" we always manage to "push" the HW in one direction or another finding out "weird spots" of things

If your seeing red dots or a fine 'mist' then you have either a faulty unit or cable. You should not see that at all.

The brightness thing is a more recent development that has come about with firmware and software updates, It used to be pitch black and gorgeous just like any other OLED screen. Black was really black.
It's a shame they have lightened it up and I'm not sure why but it may have had something to do with persistence of image etc.

Make sure you have the 'full range' for colour. Over HDMI sometimes displays default to a ' limited range' of 16-235 instead of the 'full range' of 0-255. This will wash out colours and give 'banding' issues.

Unfortunately the CV1 does not show as a standard display in the Nvidia or Windows (not sure about AMD) driver/properties so you can not check or set it here like you normally can with monitors.

Plugging the HDMI cable into a HDMI->DVI adaptor and plugging DVI into the PC supposedly has helped some people with colour issues as it alledgedly gets around this colour range issue thing.

I suppose they "messed up something" with the range or such precisely for those "rays" thing

Now that HDMI control .. "hell knows" about it, I mean there's only one way to initialise the OR ( from SW I mean ) and it does not seem to have anything to control about, that is stuff that the "OR driver" should know about it.

I am using now an NVIDIA GTX1070 driving it from the only HDMI port it has, the other are all Video Port 1.4 and as you say the OR does not appear in any control panel so not sure what/I can touch.

No I don't see that "dot grain" ( also normally synonymous of a graphic card/cabling/overheating/some HW failure to happen ) what I see is really like a "gradient" in color, also I did not yesterday that "black is not really black" actually seems more "a deep dark red" if you carefully.

I don't know what the heck they done, but surely they done something, this story of sRGB and such "colour range", which I still haven't nor fully understood ( I'll have to try to ask OR forums ) nor sorted is quite puzzling me.

The SW been designed on the PS4 for PS4/PSVR, there colours look "all as they should be", put the same SW on the OR everything looks much darker, which is a pain in the arse.

Colour space should be "standard sRGB with gamma 2.2" for all of them .. well .. don't know actually, there may be the chance they are using the gamma for HDMI TV space which is quite different ? (?).

@Dio, is any way in DX11 to change the output gamma of the stuff ? On the PS4 you can, on PC "I am not so sure" ?

At least just to see what happens, not to mention if there's any DX... call as "setHDMIOutputRange()" or such ?

[Dio]

You can pick linear or SRGB, beyond that you're into tonemapping I think.

[gilesgoat]

You can pick linear or SRGB, beyond that you're into tonemapping I think.

FANCULO ! I KNEW IT !

So wtf have they done with colour spaces in OR ? I think it's time to get in touch with "support".

I guess I'll need an "extra final shader" to correct for the colours, which is a PITA and a loss of performance

[zip accident]

I am using now an NVIDIA GTX1070 driving it from the only HDMI port it has, the other are all Video Port 1.4 and as you say the OR does not appear in any control panel so not sure what/I can touch.

I haven't heard of Video Port before. If you mean Display Port, then 1.4 is at least as modern as HDMI 2.0, Display Port 1.2 was capable of UHD 60Hz when at UHD HDMI 1.4 was only capable of 30 Hz.

[gilesgoat]

I just "applied" ( i.e. took me a while to put back in some "modifications" I've done to the OVR_MATH thing ) the SDK 1.8 that claims have "some adjustments" in the "compositor" about darks and such.

Well .. it is true, it does have "some adjustments" .. some stuff looks a bit better than before but still "not exactly identical" to PSVR so I guess overall "colours are just not quite the same".

Funny thing from that "black to red gradient" I see when it should be all dark, now I see "from black to something grainy like dust" ..

Now don't tell me "about the cables", "about the cable my arse is its own cable straight on plugged into the graphic card HDMI" ..

Overall yeah the tracking is fast, the frame rate is good, the 1070 is "stupidly powerful" to go on things, PROBABLY at this point even a "final colour adjuster shader" won't be that much of a thing to run should it be needed.

Tomorrow I am going to add "the final thing" then hopefully the audio and "we should have a good demo" at least to "prove" people that "yes you will play it on the PC as well".

Maybe we can "impress" someone at Steam they could lend us a Vive