Fool me, this is real good shit ! [the VR thread]

[Harlequin]

How does the PSVR experience compare with OR and Vive? What do you lose by paying less?

I have only experienced the PSVR out of those. It does not play PC-only games and lacks special VR controllers and the extra sensors of the Vive. The displays are also of lower resolution. According to Giles at least, however, the PSVR provides a better experience for the kinds of games and applications that he has tried.

[Bod]

I own 2 of the 3, but I have also tried the Vive. I have found the PSVR to be almost as effective as the Occy / Vive systems, and if it wasn't for the fact that it hasn't got dedicated VR controllers or bug free tracking then I would say it's financially the best option for VR (if you already own the PS4).

All 3 have issues, wether it be tracking, god-rays, disconnects, etc. It's just a case of try before you buy, and don't break the bank doing so.

[gilesgoat]

.. or bug free tracking ...

PLEASE EXPLAIN ME THIS !

I got SUPER MEGA NUTS ABOUT THIS I spent MONTHS working on that "damned" Low Latency Tracking Advanced Technique(s).

Must be said so far I haven't tried many other games, must be said on the Standard PS4 "you may have issues with games using engines" but as far as I can see on the PRO all seems to be going fine.

What are exactly those BUGS you see ??? It really puzzles me ...

All I can say is that "there are many ways to do tracking" and that 90 Hz is not really like 120 Hz .. so if you go 90 Hz for some aspect you'll have life a bit easier, for others you may have the tracking that is not the absolute best that could be.

The simplest way of doing tracking "definitely is not the one that gives you the best results", I mean it would if you really have quite some time to spare, if you are "struggling for frame rate" could be a problem.

There are much more complex techniques but they get really complex to implement inside <whatever code> and overall you need to be "in top performance" (i.e. to have "quite a bit of time to spare" in terms of CPU/GPU ) for them to work well.

I can see anyway "if it's not 120 it will never be the best it can be".

But as far as I know I can not see any tracking issue with Polybius, even if, if we want to be "super limit picky" Dio could be right in one thing and to be honest "I don't really know where the source of the actual difference lies".

[Dio]

I don't think there's any bugs or latency problems in Polybius' tracking, but it immediately felt lower resolution than Oculus, like I can see the steps. But a brief 20-minute go is hardly enough to form an informed opinion.

Having used all three headsets:
- the PSVR looked particularly beautiful because it had no screendoor effect even on saturated colours (Polybius really shows THAT off well!) and is the most convenient solution to put on and off but appeared to have lower tracking resolution, does not have a proper VR controller and is driven by more limited hardware
- Oculus has a great integrated software stack and is a nice consistent seated PC experience, and the Touch controllers may be more refined than the Vive ones, but are optional
- Vive is the most open system and by some way the best for room scale, but that in turn implies you might need to literally dedicate a whole room to it

The latter two are more similar than different though frankly.

[gilesgoat]

But a brief 20-minute go is hardly enough to form an informed opinion.

You are more than welcome to come here again

About the "tracking resolution" .. could be .. I should maybe not say this, it's not that's "so big difference at all" and to see it you really need a side by side comparison ( which I can do easily here because I have both of them AND running the same SW ) as you may say maybe it's not about "speed" but "tracking resolution".

Said that I yet NOT had time to learn well how to use and use certain new special "PSVR Analysis Tools" (*) that at least could give a sort of "precise answer" to say "yes I am perfectly on timing" "no I am not" , at 120 FPS timing is really really little to do things.

To be honest after "too much use" you get to a point where you start to think that "yes maybe some things could be even a bit more improved" ( and you actually facing the HW limitations of the current gen ) OR you simply ( ALSO ) get the point "you don't know any more what your eyes are seeing".

I mean you really start to get, as a developer, TRULY PARANOID on things like "maybe I am some microsecond late ?" "maybe there's a little delay there ?" .. and I am quite convinced at least 50% of all this is only ALL .. IN YOUR .. HEAD ...

[edit] - (*) I suppose Dio you are "familiar" with those kind of tools where you do a "2 seconds capture" and it's like WHAM 2 Gbytes of capture data and "OMG I need a 50 inches monitor to see all the windows it opens" and it's like "What .. the fuck .. all .. this .. means ? .. "

I'll never forget Patrick at one of the "first" PSVR ( was called Morpheus at the time ) closed door very exclusive dev cons comes out with some talks, after 5 mins 99.5% of the audience was totally lost and THEN .. " .. now we can see CLEARLY here .. " .. and opens a diagram of a capture of something that wasn't even fitting on the full wall where it was projected.

And then it begins with "you see here, the capture starts, the thing goes, the thread stalls, the GPU pipeline was and the other thing goes and here we synch and there it goes but if we change this we could improve that and the unit and .. "

Erm .. hum ... ahem .. what ? .. erm .. what ? ... "how does this translate into code ?" ..

And then the "worst of all" .. after 30 mins of "esoterisms" the infamous question "so is method A better than method B and C ?" ..

"No, YES, No, YES .. I mean .. 'depends on what you are doing' .. if you do more this than that then B is better then A but if you do more of that and more of this but less than that then C is better than B but worse than A if the mem is less than or ... "

There's never "one size fits very well all" ..

And if you listen "to them" the reply could even be "ah but you could change and use ALL methods switching on what you are doing" ..

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH ....

[Dio]

I get to play it at home in a week or two

[edit] - (*) I suppose Dio you are "familiar" with those kind of tools where you do a "2 seconds capture" and it's like WHAM 2 Gbytes of capture data and "OMG I need a 50 inches monitor to see all the windows it opens" and it's like "What .. the fuck .. all .. this .. means ? .. "

Oh yes. I love GPUView. And our new RGP tool on PC is proper witchcraft.

Erm .. hum ... ahem .. what ? .. erm .. what ? ... "how does this translate into code ?" ..

And then the "worst of all" .. after 30 mins of "esoterisms" the infamous question "so is method A better than method B and C ?" ..

"No, YES, No, YES .. I mean .. 'depends on what you are doing' .. if you do more this than that then B is better then A but if you do more of that and more of this but less than that then C is better than B but worse than A if the mem is less than or ... "

There's never "one size fits very well all" ..

Yep, that's it. I mean, consider the context roll issue. You might say don't change state often - but if your time in state is large enough it really doesn't matter. But the time in state depends on what gets culled, how big the triangles are, etc...

Profile -> optimise is the only way to do it.

The idea nowadays is that if there really is only one good way to do things then the API should disallow all the others... Sony should have the flexibility to do that a little more than Microsoft do, certainly in Windows, because D3D12 has to work across hardware.

[Misfit]

A colleague just got a replacement Rift as his developed sound issues and he noticed stressed plastics around the headphone area. After sending in pictures they agreed it was a warranty repair and they sent packaging for the return. He got it back within a week and it's a new headset.

Anyway he is a very happy man as he's reporting the lenses are much better in this one. Practically no god rays when he suffered quite badly before...

[Bod]

.. or bug free tracking ...

PLEASE EXPLAIN ME THIS !

I got SUPER MEGA NUTS ABOUT THIS I spent MONTHS working on that "damned" Low Latency Tracking Advanced Technique(s).

Must be said so far I haven't tried many other games, must be said on the Standard PS4 "you may have issues with games using engines" but as far as I can see on the PRO all seems to be going fine.

What are exactly those BUGS you see ??? It really puzzles me ...

All I can say is that "there are many ways to do tracking" and that 90 Hz is not really like 120 Hz .. so if you go 90 Hz for some aspect you'll have life a bit easier, for others you may have the tracking that is not the absolute best that could be.

The simplest way of doing tracking "definitely is not the one that gives you the best results", I mean it would if you really have quite some time to spare, if you are "struggling for frame rate" could be a problem.

There are much more complex techniques but they get really complex to implement inside <whatever code> and overall you need to be "in top performance" (i.e. to have "quite a bit of time to spare" in terms of CPU/GPU ) for them to work well.

I can see anyway "if it's not 120 it will never be the best it can be".

But as far as I know I can not see any tracking issue with Polybius, even if, if we want to be "super limit picky" Dio could be right in one thing and to be honest "I don't really know where the source of the actual difference lies".

I experience lots of problems with the controller when in VR. I think it's to do with the lack of lights on it compared to the headset as that hardly ever is a problem.
The controller constantly needs re-setting by holding down the button in order for the software to understand where it is in real space I find.
This is only an issue obviously when the controller is used as part of the 3D experience.

[gilesgoat]

.. or bug free tracking ...

PLEASE EXPLAIN ME THIS !

I got SUPER MEGA NUTS ABOUT THIS I spent MONTHS working on that "damned" Low Latency Tracking Advanced Technique(s).

Must be said so far I haven't tried many other games, must be said on the Standard PS4 "you may have issues with games using engines" but as far as I can see on the PRO all seems to be going fine.

What are exactly those BUGS you see ??? It really puzzles me ...

All I can say is that "there are many ways to do tracking" and that 90 Hz is not really like 120 Hz .. so if you go 90 Hz for some aspect you'll have life a bit easier, for others you may have the tracking that is not the absolute best that could be.

The simplest way of doing tracking "definitely is not the one that gives you the best results", I mean it would if you really have quite some time to spare, if you are "struggling for frame rate" could be a problem.

There are much more complex techniques but they get really complex to implement inside <whatever code> and overall you need to be "in top performance" (i.e. to have "quite a bit of time to spare" in terms of CPU/GPU ) for them to work well.

I can see anyway "if it's not 120 it will never be the best it can be".

But as far as I know I can not see any tracking issue with Polybius, even if, if we want to be "super limit picky" Dio could be right in one thing and to be honest "I don't really know where the source of the actual difference lies".

I experience lots of problems with the controller when in VR. I think it's to do with the lack of lights on it compared to the headset as that hardly ever is a problem.
The controller constantly needs re-setting by holding down the button in order for the software to understand where it is in real space I find.
This is only an issue obviously when the controller is used as part of the 3D experience.

Wait wait wait .. you mean "Tracking of the DualShock(R)Controller", you mean "the pad" not the tracking of the PSVR itself ?

If you mean the "gamepad" tracking in VR .. ah "forget it", I don't think it was even meant to be tracked at all

I tought you meant the tracking of the VR headset unit, I don't know much about the Move controller, and I think the tracking of the DualShock as you say it's probably even worse cause lacking of lights or what, I have not a clue if the HW in them is "good enough for proper VR tracking".

Given the amount of complexity it takes to do proper VR-quality tracking I am NOT suprised then if you tell me "that does not work super well" on the other side I think "you want something totally made for VR" I would not be surprised it's going to cost much more.

Sure in that respect I can see VIVE/OR do better but .. "how much more you have to pay for it ?" and "how much more your PC costs ?" ..

If you'd put a 240 Fps camera with better res, a "mega fast bus", a high quality high res 3 Axis system ( gyro + magnetic ) , some dedicated MCUs for pre-processing the data .. some few thousand pounds more and you should be fine

And of course some "mega SW" too to handle all this .. and a better API, and a faster CPU .. and more mem .. and ...

[Darkflame]

Details on HP and ACERs VR systems using Microsoft's platform;
https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/ ... oABJQK4.97

* Inside out tracking (like Hololens has)
* 1400*1400 res
* $300USDish

[gilesgoat]

Details on HP and ACERs VR systems using Microsoft's platform;
https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/ ... oABJQK4.97

* Inside out tracking (like Hololens has)
* 1400*1400 res
* $300USDish

Signed up for availability ( when in UK ) or such ... "always keep an eye in new tech if it does not cost the moon"

[zbandito]

Looks pretty nice, too bad it probably doesn't have pupil tracking. You know as soon as these drop, Rift and Vive will up the specs of their specs (haha).

[Darkflame]

Looks pretty nice, too bad it probably doesn't have pupil tracking..

Id like someone to try 3d gaze estimation from tracking both eyes.
Is a 3d cursor possible?

[zip accident]

Oops, wrong thread.

[zbandito]

Looks pretty nice, too bad it probably doesn't have pupil tracking..

Id like someone to try 3d gaze estimation from tracking both eyes.
Is a 3d cursor possible?

Seems like it should be, especially considering the software knows where you are looking and what kind of valid targets are there.