Trump

[Bog]

It is amazing. I had no idea that none of the IRA activity during the 70s and 80s counted as terrorism 'cos they're all white.

Oh, and remember that thing I used to say about responsible gun ownership? Well, I'll pick that back up again when I see some responsible gun owners. Sigh.

[Dio]

There was a significant faction in the US that might have made that argument at the time...

[tufty]

The IRA weren't terrorists, they were brave freedom fighters struggling to throw off the oppressive shackles of a despotic foreign government. A bit like the Mujahideen, but white.

Didn't you get the memo?

[(o)(o)]

The IRA weren't terrorists, they were brave freedom fighters struggling to throw off the oppressive shackles of a despotic foreign government.

Corbynista communist terrorist-symp !!!

[(o)(o)]

Oh sorry, for a moment there I thought I was a Daily Mail commenting Russian paid shill..

[PFVA]

In some democracies it's even a crime to have referendums on independence and trying to proclaim one even if no violence was used by the independentists. See Catalonia leaders in jail.

Note: I don't favour nor i'm against their independence but i don't find democratic not to allow referendums, or to have peaceful independence pushes, etc.

[zip accident]

In some democracies it's even a crime to have referendums on independence and trying to proclaim one even if no violence was used by the independentists. See Catalonia leaders in jail.

Note: I don't favour nor i'm against their independence but i don't find democratic not to allow referendums, or to have peaceful independence pushes, etc.

I am not inclined to favour total state control, I think CCTV is too invasive, but I think most independence movements are either racist, or an attempt to evade paying taxes, or both.

[funkstar]

In some democracies it's even a crime to have referendums on independence and trying to proclaim one even if no violence was used by the independentists. See Catalonia leaders in jail.

Well, they're the leaders of a rebellion, which tried to secede Catalonia from Spain. There's a pretty solid case to be made for them being jailed, regardless of how sympathetic their cause may be, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find any liberal democracy allowing an analogous happening.

[Barney]

In some democracies it's even a crime to have referendums on independence and trying to proclaim one even if no violence was used by the independentists. See Catalonia leaders in jail.

Well, they're the leaders of a rebellion, which tried to secede Catalonia from Spain. There's a pretty solid case to be made for them being jailed, regardless of how sympathetic their cause may be, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find any liberal democracy allowing an analogous happening.

You mean like, say, Scotland leaving the United Kingdom?

[PFVA]

I was going to say that: the UK allowed Scotland to have a referendum.

If Catalonia had been allowed one without all this fuss it may not even had a majority of "yes" votes. For one they would have to leave the EU and the € something they are against, and then reapply for the EU and go thru the process all new countries have to go thru. The Spanish Popular Party government decided to escalate the thing, screaming they weren't allowed to vote on the subject and made things much worse.

[merman]

The "mentally ill" label is a useful distraction emp[lyed by NRA (and the politicians they support) so as to avoid anything that might require gun control consequently when many more people are killed by "mentally ill" white men with guns it's not something anyone has to deal with (how long ago was Las Vegas and no action on gun control was considered as a result in the US)

whereas a relatively smaller number of people have been killed terrorist attacks but that supports disproportionate response wanted by Trump and/or his allies.
I remember the Parson Green attack (botched thankfully) and the upshot was a small disruption here (I had to collect my son who goes to a school on that stretch of the district line), trains were back operationally the following day but Trump sees it as evidence to support immigration bans.

Trump and others do not let facts, logic or considered thought stand in the way of their agenda and hoping some of the Republicans would grow a backbone on the issue is wishful thinking as they are heavily indebted to the NRA (as are a number of Democrats)

So if gun violence is caused by the mentally ill, it was a bad idea for Trump to sign the bill cutting mental health services, wasn't it?

Three of the five worst shootings in US history have happened since Trump took office. A man who took huge amounts of funds from the NRA and the pro-gun lobby.

[funkstar]

You mean like, say, Scotland leaving the United Kingdom?

Not at all comparable: The Scottish and UK governments worked and negotiated for years to set up the legal framework for them to have a referendum - which is how democracy actually is supposed to work.

Again, I'm not commenting on whether Catalonia should be an independent nation or not, but rather on how even liberal democracies don't (and shouldn't) take shit from people who think their laws don't apply to them. In this case I think it's pretty clear: the Catalonian referendum was straight up illegal per the constitution of Spain. Going ahead with it, and declaring independence subsequently, was a fuckwit bluff which got called, hard.

[Little stoned kiwi]

Just because a politician accepted a campaign negotiation doesn't mean they can't take action in gun control.
They just don't have the balls to. Political systems favour money hungry ass-kissers.

[ThetaReactor]

Maybe it would be easier to pass new gun control laws if the current ones were properly enforced. The Texas shooter should not have been able to purchase a firearm in the first place.

[F-ZeroOne]

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/27/trump-r ... event.html

This at an event honouring Native American code-talkers.

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/935232261666066432

"Trump also suggested he wasn't much aware of the code talkers and had to ask John Kelly. Quote: 'And I have to say, I said to General Kelly, I said, general, how good - here he is, right there, the chief; he's the general and the chief - I said, how good were these code talkers?' ".