What the fuck is Russia upto?

[venusian]

I hear Siberia is nice at this time of year.

[PFVA]

I have not followed the case in detail but what i have heard is that the spy gentleman and his daughter were 'gazzed' when they were sitted in a street bench in a place named Salisbury.

Immediately i thought of a few questions:

Assuming the Russians did it, how did they know the gentleman was going to be on that public bench on that day at that hour?

Did he go there everyday or once a week on a set day? It would be a kind of strange. Spies and specially the ones who change sides know they have to be careful with their habits.

Were they to meet someone but they, father and daughter didn't know worked for Moscow?

Wasn't the MI5 or 6, i always confuse those two, protecting them? Do the Russians have one or spies there able of giving them all the details about the movements of the gentleman spy. That one highly possible. Some people for money do that.

or maybe he had had a change, was homesick, desillusioned with the West and wanted to go back to Mother Russia, and one of our Western Agencies killed him? That can happen too.

Or did the Russians somehow were able to make our services believe that, and they got rid of him.

Note: Keep in mind i love reading spy novels and i'm a fan of John Le Carré (who, btw, doesn't like Putin at all) and Grahm Greene.

[gribbles]

I hear Siberia is nice at this time of year.

Yes. But the flying squirrel still seeks shelter in the night.

Is that you, Mikhail?

[zip accident]

Maybe they are planning to invade the UK?

In WW2 it was a non-starter, but then we had the world's biggest navy, and an airforce that wasn't bad, now the navy has mostly been scrapped and the airforce has a lot fewer planes, even though the ones it has are quite nice.

[Daniel]

Assuming the Russians did it, how did they know the gentleman was going to be on that public bench on that day at that hour?

Did he go there everyday or once a week on a set day? It would be a kind of strange. Spies and specially the ones who change sides know they have to be careful with their habits.

Were they to meet someone but they, father and daughter didn't know worked for Moscow?

Wasn't the MI5 or 6, i always confuse those two, protecting them?

That's probably why it took them a few years to get it done.

[merman]

You know, the Home Secretary at the time of the Litvinenko murder should take their share of the blame. And there are 14 more "unsolved" cases linked to Russia. Who could possibly have seen all the files and know what was happening?

[F-ZeroOne]

Maybe they are planning to invade the UK?

In WW2 it was a non-starter, but then we had the world's biggest navy, and an airforce that wasn't bad, now the navy has mostly been scrapped and the airforce has a lot fewer planes, even though the ones it has are quite nice.

Not sure of the current state of the Russian amphibious forces - they used to have some pretty big hovercraft for just that sort of thing - but the military build-up required would likely be hard to miss, and they'd have to get by the UKs allies (yes, we still have some, amazingly), the US reaction (assuming President Trump doersn't give his pal Putin a free pass) and though in terms of numbers they could probably make quite a mess of us they'd probably regret getting that far (the British armed forces aren't what they were, but I suspect the submarines alone would represent a fair threat). And what would they gain? To the best of my knowledge, North Sea oil aside, the UK isn't exactly big on natural resources. Maybe Putin really likes country houses and, of course, jam?

[Barney]

I have not followed the case in detail but what i have heard is that the spy gentleman and his daughter were 'gazzed' when they were sitted in a street bench in a place named Salisbury

Seems from the news that the attack took place in a nearby restaurant, and they ended up on the park bench when they became too ill to move any further. I hear that anyone that was in the restaurant at the time needs to present themselves at the hospital, as it's possible that there was some fallout from the gas or aerosol used.

[zip accident]

Maybe they are planning to invade the UK?

In WW2 it was a non-starter, but then we had the world's biggest navy, and an airforce that wasn't bad, now the navy has mostly been scrapped and the airforce has a lot fewer planes, even though the ones it has are quite nice.

Not sure of the current state of the Russian amphibious forces - they used to have some pretty big hovercraft for just that sort of thing - but the military build-up required would likely be hard to miss, and they'd have to get by the UKs allies (yes, we still have some, amazingly), the US reaction (assuming President Trump doersn't give his pal Putin a free pass) and though in terms of numbers they could probably make quite a mess of us they'd probably regret getting that far (the British armed forces aren't what they were, but I suspect the submarines alone would represent a fair threat). And what would they gain? To the best of my knowledge, North Sea oil aside, the UK isn't exactly big on natural resources. Maybe Putin really likes country houses and, of course, jam?

Yeah, I'm not seeing any big material gains for them, but there could be a lot of prestige in it.

We're not an obvious target, but equally we don't have much in the way of defences set up, there's all of eastern Europe to cross by land, however there is a sea route from the north, not sure how viable that is.

I'm not seeing a realistic way they could be ousted if they got established. The Chunnel wouldn't be a way for reinforcements to arrive.

It would be a long way to go, so they probably won't.

[Zoot]

It's all about proportionate response. We will see when May announces the punitive measures, but if it is anything more than tit-for-tat diplomat expelling and freezing of assets, I would be very surprised. I would very much like us to boycott the World Cup - not because I think that we should, but more that it would give us an excuse not to get knocked out and the group stages and pretend that we would have won it this time.

The guy who was attacked was a British spy, released back to us in a prisoner exchange. The Russians don't play fair, and have long memories. The only correct proportionate response is for us to go over there and kill one of the people who spied on us. But, of course, we won't, and we shouldn't.

[(o)(o)]

I have not followed the case in detail but what i have heard is that the spy gentleman and his daughter were 'gazzed' when they were sitted in a street bench in a place named Salisbury.

Immediately i thought of a few questions:

Assuming the Russians did it, how did they know the gentleman was going to be on that public bench on that day at that hour?

Did he go there everyday or once a week on a set day? It would be a kind of strange. Spies and specially the ones who change sides know they have to be careful with their habits.

Were they to meet someone but they, father and daughter didn't know worked for Moscow?

Wasn't the MI5 or 6, i always confuse those two, protecting them? Do the Russians have one or spies there able of giving them all the details about the movements of the gentleman spy. That one highly possible. Some people for money do that.

or maybe he had had a change, was homesick, desillusioned with the West and wanted to go back to Mother Russia, and one of our Western Agencies killed him? That can happen too.

Or did the Russians somehow were able to make our services believe that, and they got rid of him.

Note: Keep in mind i love reading spy novels and i'm a fan of John Le Carré (who, btw, doesn't like Putin at all) and Grahm Greene.

I’m sure they have plenty of methods of tracking people’s movements in the uk.. but consider this :

Assassinations are normally discreet. This use of nerve agents in public space is intended to create a diplomatic incident / confrontation, or they would just use a poison dart etc. Also the location close to the MOD chemicals testing base Porton Down is highly symbolic.

This is not an assassination it’s signalling and Skripal is the pawn in the game. Assuming it is Russia Putin will be cementing his support at home, whilst causing more disruption in the west with his long game.. meddling with democracies and nation states, and we’ve seen how effective they are at that In the USA elections, Brexit, and sowing discord among citizens with their troll factories pushing diversive views.

Corbyn might have jeered for talking about party funding, but the conservatives are in the pocket of Russia to the tune of nearly £1bn. Really it would be laughable to continue accepting donations whilst imposing sanctions. Will the Daily Mail maul the Tories, as they did Labour for taking donations from Max Mosley? (I’d say there is a much clearer case here for returning the funds, but I won’t hold my breath.) Either way, Putin will be sitting back and enjoying the show..

[WiteWulf]

Assassinations are normally discreet. This use of nerve agents in public space is intended to create a diplomatic incident / confrontation, or they would just use a poison dart etc. Also the location close to the MOD chemicals testing base Porton Down is highly symbolic.

This is not an assassination it’s signalling and Skripal is the pawn in the game. Assuming it is Russia Putin will be cementing his support at home, whilst causing more disruption in the west with his long game.. meddling with democracies and nation states, and we’ve seen how effective they are at that In the USA elections, Brexit, and sowing discord among citizens with their troll factories pushing diversive views.

Don't forget there are elections coming up in Russia soon. It's been said that nothing drives support for the government like a good war. A neat foreign assassination of past enemies of the state is up there....

[(o)(o)]

Yes, and I believe Russian nationals get a bit whipped up when Putin goes after other states.. not great.

That might need to be "elections", with the quotes.

[Daniel]

Assassinations are normally discreet. This use of nerve agents in public space is intended to create a diplomatic incident / confrontation

Or someone messed up.

[merman]

It's all about proportionate response. We will see when May announces the punitive measures, but if it is anything more than tit-for-tat diplomat expelling and freezing of assets, I would be very surprised. I would very much like us to boycott the World Cup - not because I think that we should, but more that it would give us an excuse not to get knocked out and the group stages and pretend that we would have won it this time.

The guy who was attacked was a British spy, released back to us in a prisoner exchange. The Russians don't play fair, and have long memories. The only correct proportionate response is for us to go over there and kill one of the people who spied on us. But, of course, we won't, and we shouldn't.

23 Russian diplomats given a week to leave the UK.

Ministers and the Royal Family will not fulfill diplomatic roles during the World Cup.

The fact another Russian national died in suspicious circumstances this week ups the stakes...