Trump

[Little stoned kiwi]

Why can't everyone simply not have trade barriers? There doesn't need to be a United States of Earth to do that.

[F-ZeroOne]

Trump giving a positively Churchillian speech recently. And yes, this is apparently real:

https://78.media.tumblr.com/ef4dfe15e22 ... 0y_500.png

[Chontler]

Trump giving a positively Churchillian speech recently. And yes, this is apparently real:

https://78.media.tumblr.com/ef4dfe15e22 ... 0y_500.png

Trump regularly recites this as his immigration song! :



proof he has no soul :

[zip accident]

There I was, minding my own business and thinking of the doctor, and the Brigadier, and up into my head pops the double barrel surname "Parpington Trump".

I don't know if I'm remembering it from somewhere, "Parpington" sounds fictional, or is it actually new, in combination at least?

[merman]

Why can't everyone simply not have trade barriers? There doesn't need to be a United States of Earth to do that.

Because humans.

[WiteWulf]

Why can't everyone simply not have trade barriers? There doesn't need to be a United States of Earth to do that.

Simple (semi-)theoretical example:

(Disclaimer: I am not an economist!)

tl;dr it's about protecting local jobs and industry against cheap imports

- your country has an industry producing something that historically has an environmentally damaging production process
- your country, along with a few others, decides to do something about it and force that industry to be cleaner for the ood of the planet and people who live near the factory, but the new production process is less efficient and makes the product more expensive
- another country, let's call them, I don't know, "China", carries on producing the same product in the old, dirty process and undercuts your national industry, importing their cheaper product to your country
- no one buys your clean, locally produced product. Factory shuts down everyone loses their jobs, "China" rake it in and continue poluting the atmosphere

So, to protect your jobs and local industry and the planet you impose import duties on the cheap foreign product to make your local product more attractive to buyers in your country.

It's not just dirty production; it could also be high wages due to unionisation or cost of living making your local product expensive. It could be health and safety measures in your factory or safety standards for the product itself, with gray market products slipping in that aren't as safe.

[Little stoned kiwi]

If the US imposes tariffs against the EU to protect their industries, and the EU retaliates, people still lose their jobs. Perhaps different people in different industries, but no one wins out of it.

It would be nice to think they were doing it out of environmental concern to make the world a better place. It never is though.

[zip accident]

If the US imposes tariffs against the EU to protect their industries, and the EU retaliates, people still lose their jobs. Perhaps different people in different industries, but no one wins out of it.

It would be nice to think they were doing it out of environmental concern to make the world a better place. It never is though.

There will always be competition.

There may one day be a world government, but there will be competition for places in that government, and competition for the resources that it supplies and those it takes in.

Kings were never for the good of the people, they were for the good of the king.

There is always a profit made from trade deals, see "shorting" for an example of making money out of causing something to fail, there are equally profits made from the implementation and negotiation of tarriff barriers. In this society, nothing happens that doesn't make someone a very big profit.

[Little stoned kiwi]

There will always be competition.

That's not competition though. Tariffs are anticompetitive.

There's the other side of the coin, such as China employing people by producing unwanted steel that gets dumped on the market with no intention of trying to recoup profit from it. But if all you want is cheap steel then being forced to subsidise quality steel from local industry is just bullshit. Or worse, subsidising crap steel from local industry.
There's always going to be competition and things that seem unfair to individuals. Tariffs exasperate that rather than helping. Often they aren't subsidising local people, they are subsidising multinational corporations.

[gribbles]

As much as I hate to threadpiss, I couldn't resist.

- your country, along with a few others, decides to do something about it and force that industry to be cleaner for the ood of the planet and people who live near the factory, but the new production process is less efficient and makes the product more expensive

[gilesgoat]

There will always be competition.

That's not competition though. Tariffs are anticompetitive.

There's the other side of the coin, such as China employing people by producing unwanted steel that gets dumped on the market with no intention of trying to recoup profit from it. But if all you want is cheap steel then being forced to subsidise quality steel from local industry is just bullshit. Or worse, subsidising crap steel from local industry.
There's always going to be competition and things that seem unfair to individuals. Tariffs exasperate that rather than helping. Often they aren't subsidising local people, they are subsidising multinational corporations.

Is that steel that makes those 1 pound wrenches you buy in the pound shop that snaps and hurts you in the eye as soon as you grab a bolt that is just a bit tighter or used in those buildings that will collapse 5 years later when full of people living in ?

[Little stoned kiwi]

If you buy tools from a thrift shop then yes, and if your country doesn't have enforced standards for building materials then yes.
If you want quality tools and quality building materials then they will be made of quality steel - tariffs generally have nothing to do with quality. Tariffs on importing steel could limit the quality of your options or make them even more expensive.

[merman]

If you buy tools from a thrift shop then yes, and if your country doesn't have enforced standards for building materials then yes.
If you want quality tools and quality building materials then they will be made of quality steel - tariffs generally have nothing to do with quality. Tariffs on importing steel could limit the quality of your options or make them even more expensive.

See, the problem here is you are using logic.
That's not in the Trump vocabulary.

His claim is that needing to import steel for all the military stuff he wants built means his national security is at risk.
The reality is that the US steel industry can't produce enough cheaply to compete with the EU or China, especially not the high-grade steel British plants have specialised in.

In the long run, tariffs hurt US industry more than they help. But he's not interested in that. Same as he's not interested in the SAFETY of the steel workers (or the coal miners) that he pledged to support during the election campaign. They don't matter now he is in, the big corporate donors are what matter.

[(o)(o)]

[tufty]

When you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.