Fair enough.. there are some (mostly on reddit) who are genuinely all "yay could do with a nice plague or nuclear war to cut some of us nasty humans down" and it gets on my tits. No offence(o)(o) wrote: Christ![]()
I'm actually at high risk, as are both my living parents. It's called gallows humour.
Coronavirus Pandemic
Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
Eight out of nine UK cases discharged from hospital.
Oh, and Akira predicted both the Tokyo 2020 Olympics and a major illness sweeping the world...
Oh, and Akira predicted both the Tokyo 2020 Olympics and a major illness sweeping the world...
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
Less well on the giant space lasers.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
Can we retitle this thread as the "World Health Organization (WHO) has not yet declared this a pandemic" as 1600 deaths out of 70k infected surely is a piss poor effort compared to previous "proper" ones. In fact cars are doing a far better job of keeping the population under control at 3k a day and there doesn't seem to be a big hoo-ha over that....
I move that social media has made this a far, far, far bigger deal than it warrants - Perhaps it has the same PR people as Farage ?
I move that social media has made this a far, far, far bigger deal than it warrants - Perhaps it has the same PR people as Farage ?
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
CAR-OWNER VIRUS.Deckard wrote:Can we retitle this thread as the "World Health Organization (WHO) has not yet declared this a pandemic" as 1600 deaths out of 70k infected surely is a piss poor effort compared to previous "proper" ones. In fact cars are doing a far better job of keeping the population under control at 3k a day and there doesn't seem to be a big hoo-ha over that....
I move that social media has made this a far, far, far bigger deal than it warrants - Perhaps it has the same PR people as Farage ?

"The eggs, get them!"
Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
In quantum physics, there's the concept of not being able to take a measurement without affecting the thing that you're trying to measure.
Hysteria over epidemics works similarly; You can watch the media freaking out about it and governments taking drastic actions, then look at the numbers and think "well, that's a lot of fuss over nothing". But, of course, it's entirely possible that all the hysteria and over-caution is exactly why the numbers are small and an epidemic eventually amounts to nothing.
Here's a video from a science YouTuber (nuclear physics and chemistry is his day job) that gives a feel for just how radically the numbers can be changed by even modest steps to prevent its spread, by mathematically modelling various scenarios in a spreadsheet:
The underlying point is that viruses, well, go viral. They are contagious. The "network effect" applies.
If ten people get it and they each pass it onto 10 people and they each pass it onto 10 people... you get the gist. The numbers can explode into the stratosphere all too easily. But if you take steps so that those 10 initial people only pass it onto 8 people and those 8 people only pass it onto 6 people - and so forth, as you get a grip on things, warning and quarantining people, and implementing measures that stem the contagion spreading so quickly - then the numbers are radically different in 2 months' time.
Yes, cars easily kill vastly more people. But, as has been pointed out but bears being repeated, car crashes are not contagious. One car crash does not cause another ten car crashes, that causes another hundred car crashes, that causes another thousand car crashes. Whether another car crash happens is independent of how many car crashes have previously occurred.
I guess it's like when we had the mass-hysteria over the Y2K bug. Did the fact that it didn't really do anything have more to do with not being much of a problem in the first place - and it was over-hyped - or was it actually the fact that it was so hyped up, and put into motion all these "Y2K compliance testing" programmes and so forth, that ended up making sure that, by the time the clocks ticked over, every problematic implementation had been fixed or patched?
Perhaps we'll never know. But the underlying argument would be that - either way - the Y2K bug didn't cause planes to fall out of the sky or banks to lose trillions that would ruin the world economy or anything else like that. It doesn't matter, either way, what actually caused the lack of catastrophic effects - the point was that there were no catastrophic effects, and there's no harm in priming people to be perhaps overly-cautious in avoiding causing any more catastrophic effects, because "better safe than sorry".
Hysteria over epidemics works similarly; You can watch the media freaking out about it and governments taking drastic actions, then look at the numbers and think "well, that's a lot of fuss over nothing". But, of course, it's entirely possible that all the hysteria and over-caution is exactly why the numbers are small and an epidemic eventually amounts to nothing.
Here's a video from a science YouTuber (nuclear physics and chemistry is his day job) that gives a feel for just how radically the numbers can be changed by even modest steps to prevent its spread, by mathematically modelling various scenarios in a spreadsheet:
The underlying point is that viruses, well, go viral. They are contagious. The "network effect" applies.
If ten people get it and they each pass it onto 10 people and they each pass it onto 10 people... you get the gist. The numbers can explode into the stratosphere all too easily. But if you take steps so that those 10 initial people only pass it onto 8 people and those 8 people only pass it onto 6 people - and so forth, as you get a grip on things, warning and quarantining people, and implementing measures that stem the contagion spreading so quickly - then the numbers are radically different in 2 months' time.
Yes, cars easily kill vastly more people. But, as has been pointed out but bears being repeated, car crashes are not contagious. One car crash does not cause another ten car crashes, that causes another hundred car crashes, that causes another thousand car crashes. Whether another car crash happens is independent of how many car crashes have previously occurred.
I guess it's like when we had the mass-hysteria over the Y2K bug. Did the fact that it didn't really do anything have more to do with not being much of a problem in the first place - and it was over-hyped - or was it actually the fact that it was so hyped up, and put into motion all these "Y2K compliance testing" programmes and so forth, that ended up making sure that, by the time the clocks ticked over, every problematic implementation had been fixed or patched?
Perhaps we'll never know. But the underlying argument would be that - either way - the Y2K bug didn't cause planes to fall out of the sky or banks to lose trillions that would ruin the world economy or anything else like that. It doesn't matter, either way, what actually caused the lack of catastrophic effects - the point was that there were no catastrophic effects, and there's no harm in priming people to be perhaps overly-cautious in avoiding causing any more catastrophic effects, because "better safe than sorry".
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
SPACE FORCE!Dio wrote:Less well on the giant space lasers.
Which currently doesn't have any vehicles capable of getting its forces into space. Ah well.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
As defined by the WHO a pandemic is : 'the worldwide spread of a new disease.'Deckard wrote:Can we retitle this thread as the "World Health Organization (WHO) has not yet declared this a pandemic" as 1600 deaths out of 70k infected surely is a piss poor effort compared to previous "proper" ones. In fact cars are doing a far better job of keeping the population under control at 3k a day and there doesn't seem to be a big hoo-ha over that....
I move that social media has made this a far, far, far bigger deal than it warrants - Perhaps it has the same PR people as Farage ?
There is no requirement for a disease to be particularly deadly for it to qualify for Pandemic status.
Oddly enough my take is that social media (or to be precise the social media that I experience) seems to be massively downplaying the potential impacts of Covid 19 with self appointed experts claiming things like 'it's no more deadly than flu', 'Sars was worse', 'Cars kill more people so why worry?' etc.
A few things to consider :
When was the last time a similar number of people were quarantined? (either in the UK or Worldwide)
How many of those infected would have died without medical treatment? (think of the likely impact on poorer nations)
How do you effectively contain & control a disease that can be spread by people who do not exhibit symptoms of said disease?
How many severe cases could the NHS deal with before it would be effectively overwhelmed?
I don't know the answer to any of the above but looking at how the authorities are dealing with Covid 19 makes me think it's more serious than many people seem to think.
Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
We haven't had any cases yet here. All the suspected ones turned out to be negative.
However i did hear from a reliable source, no, not Facebook or other social media, but from someone i don't even know who was at a café saying that our government has a long tradition of hiding the cases during epidemics and it's doing it again for fear of losing tourists. Actually when i went to Lisbon last Friday the tourists areas seemed emptier than usual.
Note: As for the government to hide epidemics, yes they used to do that with cholera a few other things years, and years ago, actually decades, and decades ago. As for hiding cases of the Coronavirus i can't see how. Nowadays everybody seems to run to the social media to tell anything that happens to them.
However i did hear from a reliable source, no, not Facebook or other social media, but from someone i don't even know who was at a café saying that our government has a long tradition of hiding the cases during epidemics and it's doing it again for fear of losing tourists. Actually when i went to Lisbon last Friday the tourists areas seemed emptier than usual.
Note: As for the government to hide epidemics, yes they used to do that with cholera a few other things years, and years ago, actually decades, and decades ago. As for hiding cases of the Coronavirus i can't see how. Nowadays everybody seems to run to the social media to tell anything that happens to them.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
"Not worse than the flu." 500 people a year die from complications in New Zealand, and that's with vaccinations available (that many people not in danger of dying refuse to take).
Of course that's nothing compared to the Spanish Flu that decimated 2/3rds of some towns.
Economically the impacts are already starting to show. Manufacturing chains have been halted due to dependence on China. Students can't enter the country - the universities say they'll be down NZ$100 million. With a recession looming this will be what triggers it.
Of course that's nothing compared to the Spanish Flu that decimated 2/3rds of some towns.
Economically the impacts are already starting to show. Manufacturing chains have been halted due to dependence on China. Students can't enter the country - the universities say they'll be down NZ$100 million. With a recession looming this will be what triggers it.
If they think you're crude, go technical; if they think you're technical, go crude. I'm a very technical boy.
Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
Not liking the look of this.
The video KlaxonCow posted is very good at a basic level R0 type explanation but there are so many unpredictable variables (and he makes too many assumptions.. it's not really an analysis just an overview) and expert opinion seems to be weighing toward pandemic and China massively underreporting ..
The reassuring news that 4 of 5 have it mild, is offset somewhat by 1 in 5 having very serious condition, requiring hospitalisation most likely, and the death rate is higher than the numbers being floated around most of which include active cases. SARS was initially reported as 4% but was really 10%..
Look at the closed cases here, 11% death rate : https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Some opinion https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... -opinions/
The video KlaxonCow posted is very good at a basic level R0 type explanation but there are so many unpredictable variables (and he makes too many assumptions.. it's not really an analysis just an overview) and expert opinion seems to be weighing toward pandemic and China massively underreporting ..
The reassuring news that 4 of 5 have it mild, is offset somewhat by 1 in 5 having very serious condition, requiring hospitalisation most likely, and the death rate is higher than the numbers being floated around most of which include active cases. SARS was initially reported as 4% but was really 10%..
Look at the closed cases here, 11% death rate : https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Some opinion https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... -opinions/
Trippy vibes...
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http://soundcloud.com/two-gapper
Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
Panic first. Get some rice and pasta in.
Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
In fairness, that's really what it's supposed to be.(o)(o) wrote:The video KlaxonCow posted is very good at a basic level R0 type explanation but there are so many unpredictable variables (and he makes too many assumptions.. it's not really an analysis just an overview)
A basic overview, for the layperson, of how viruses in general - not specifically this particular Corvid 19 coronavirus, though he uses reported numbers from that as his "real world data" to compare his spreadsheet simulation against - work to help people understand that what makes them so potentially deadly (even with fairly modest rates of spread) is "the network effect" of how contagious it is. But, equally, how preventative measures early on to curb that spread can knock the legs out from under an epidemic and something that, unrestrained, could potentially infect millions can be brought down to thousands or hundreds, and it burns itself out, if preventative steps - like quarantine, washing hands, etc. - are taken nice and early.
(Which, I feel, is the big take-away. Viruses that are highly contagious are, of course, a problem but the natural balance to that is that they also will burn themselves out quickly, as long as they're not given a platform to spread like wild fire. They're "live fast and die young", so if the lid can be kept on it long enough, they'll actually helpfully burn themselves out in short order too.)
It's informative. To let the average person understand what you should be panicking about, and what you shouldn't be panicking about.
(It's also a video in the wider context that he has previously addressed anti-vaccination nonsense in the past, along similar lines, and how a wave of people refusing to get vaccinated becomes a threat to absolutely everyone. Because if you keep a lid on things then, yes, this stuff becomes minor and seems like a "fuss over nothing". But a bunch of people saying "I refuse to help keep a lid on things" gives diseases an unrestrained environment to spread like wild fire - and that's how you convert a "fuss about nothing" into a deadly pandemic, and stuff that used to be under control - TB, for example - starts making a deadly comeback. Thanks to idiots getting in a panic about the wrong thing.)
Indeed, it can't be an analysis, in that sense, as we can only go by the reported numbers - which, at this stage, are unreliable, even without potential lying about it from China - so no-one is capable of giving anyone a rock solid conclusive analysis. This is still on-going with, indeed, too many unknowns.
It's meant as more of a "Viruses 101" for the public to inform them a little better of what the underlying problem can be and what needs to be done to address that problem, as a counter-balance to the media hysteria that typically explains nothing to anyone.
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- Deckard
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
Great book about viruses that just came out by this author.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... infections
Was a recommended book of The week by the Times
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... infections
Was a recommended book of The week by the Times
Now with a new Mac Mini Pro so dont judge me !
Re: Coronavirus Pandemic
Corvid :KlaxonCow wrote:Corvid 19

Covid

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