Coronavirus Pandemic

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tufty
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by tufty »

KlaxonCow wrote:But I don't have those numbers to hand, so the cruder metric is all I can offer from the sources I'm looking at.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Hubei_lockdowns

Population under total lockdown ~60M

Chinese cases ~80K

About 0.1 - 0.15%, err on the low side to cover cases outside the Hubei area.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by merman »

So yesterday's long-awaited briefing... If Boris had called for theatres/businesses to close, they could have claimed insurance. By just advising people not to go, no insurance paid out.

Several articles now claiming Government "strategy" was based on bad numbers for a different virus. Even the senior health adviser during the swine flu epidemic says they have got things wrong. :roll:
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

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merman wrote:So yesterday's long-awaited briefing... If Boris had called for theatres/businesses to close, they could have claimed insurance. By just advising people not to go, no insurance paid out.
Actually that appears to be fake news according to the 'Association of British Insurers' as you wouldn't be covered anyway.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-5 ... type=share
Many from the entertainment industry say without a direct order from government, they will not be protected by their insurance.

But the Association of British Insurers claims most companies would not be covered anyway, even if there were to be a dictat from Downing Street.

In a statement, the organisation says: "Standard business interruption cover - the type the majority of businesses purchase - does not include forced closure by authorities as it is intended to respond to physical damage at the property which results in the business being unable to continue to trade.

"A small minority of typically larger firms might have purchased an extension to their cover for closure due to any infectious disease. In this instance, an enforced closure could help them make the claim.

"But this will depend on the precise nature of the cover they have purchased, so they should check with their insurer or broker to see if they are covered."
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by (o)(o) »

WRT insurance I tend to agree with Richard Murphy on this, despite distaste for insurers :

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2020/03/17/why-insurance-cannot-solve-the-problems-businesses-face-now/

What we really need of course is for the government to step in.

If as people say "it's taxpayers money" then really "we" are really just borrowing to ride out the rough weather.

It's just a few mouseclicks...

And that seems to be the obvious thing to do in a sovereign country, with a fiat economy, experiencing time-limited strain.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

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(o)(o) wrote:WRT insurance I tend to agree with Richard Murphy on this, despite distaste for insurers :

What we really need of course is for the government to step in.
Which I think they'll do. Probably tonight?

France has already done something saying 'no business will go under'.

If they don't then it will just mean loads more claiming welfare, so may as well do it properly.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by (o)(o) »

Hey man this is the Tories !!

It will surely be some half hearted piss-weak effort to stem the hemorrhaging, at best.

Edit: Branson might get a bailed out though?
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by gilesgoat »

Mini news, a friend of a friend of mine that is affected by asthma had "a suspicious situation" cause she was getting really THAT BAD she been tested.

Despite all the shit going on in Italy, it did take just 5 days to have a response, luckily she was negative, no contagion "just" her own asthma.

But I think it's really impressive that they can a reply in just 5 days given the situation that is going on.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by zip accident »

Why is nobody anywhere setting up separate queues for the infected and uninfected?
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by carolen »

And of course the malware types are getting in on things by putting out fave Covid map trackers...

CovidLock ransomware exploits coronavirus with malicious Android app {warning: autoplay video on Techrepublic}. Would likely not affect peeps on here but may be worth reminding family & friends to be wary of downloading anything without checking.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by PFVA »

From yesterday:

Beach access closed:

ImageBeach Access Interdit

Boardwalk open though:
(It was a quite nice walk)

ImageBoardwalk Still Open


As of today 448 cases.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by PFVA »

I don't know if it's the same elsewhere but the big problem here is lack of appropriate material. The hospitals don't have enough ventilators to treat people as the numbers increase. They have already asked the private sector to spare all they can. There is a lot of doctors infected because they don't have enough protective material. And not just doctors and other medical staff but also the essencial sectors that need to stay open.

That's why they are aftraid, and that's why they want the quarentine and the state of emergency.

Budget cuts put us in this situation but also lack of planning and corruption not the medical sector in particularly even though they also have it but generalized.

But maybe now the priority has to be doing the best we can under the circunstances.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by KlaxonCow »

tufty wrote:
KlaxonCow wrote:But I don't have those numbers to hand, so the cruder metric is all I can offer from the sources I'm looking at.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Hubei_lockdowns
Wikipedia, of course. I didn't think to look there. D'oh!
tufty wrote:Population under total lockdown ~60M

Chinese cases ~80K

About 0.1 - 0.15%, err on the low side to cover cases outside the Hubei area.
So, yeah, still a fraction of one percent, even at the epicentre of the worst case of it so far.

And, of course, Wuhan is a special case.

In that that's where it was discovered, so even if the Chinese authorities had instantaneously locked everything down the exact moment the virus was identified (which they didn't exactly do, but I'm sticking to just the numbers here, and we can discuss the politics involved later), the virus always gets that implicit "head start" for the duration of the period when it was out there, but no-one knew it yet.

The virus doesn't appear when you first identify it. It was already out and about in Wuhan, and spreading, before discovery - because, indeed, that's what prompts the discovery in the first place, when a mass of people start getting ill and some dying, that's when you realise that there's something horribly wrong here and you need to investigate the cause.

Not to defend the known failings of the initial Chinese response at all, but to recognise that "ground zero" of any infection is always going to be bad, because the infection gets a "head start" in spreading before we've even realised it's there and, indeed, we only begin realising it's there because it's already causing extraordinary illness and deaths (that is, to create enough of a "signal" to be noticed above the "background noise" of the fact that, well, people do get ill and die for a multitude of other reasons as well). So discovery comes off the back of the fact that it's already bad to begin with.

But, I stress, in making these points, I do not wish to minimise the seriousness of this in the slightest. Exponential growth is a very deadly beast indeed. The deadliest one of them all, I'd say. Which was why I was so concerned with Boris's initial "ah, fuck it, just let it happen" approach - that was catastrophically bad thinking and I'm glad that various universities and institutions flooded the government with new data and modelling to help them appreciate that, no, we really, really, really do need the tighter controls and restrictions - and an aim towards "suppression", not natural "herd immunity".

I'm still not convinced that they remotely understand the nuance of all this, mind you. But thank fuck someone at least bashed the basic concept of exponential growth into their heads, as "just let it happen" is totally and utterly insane. I mean, genuinely and properly insane, not just "I'm being melodramatic because I disagree with you" kind of mad.

I guess politicians are so used to reacting to terrorists or wars or whatever, with a "we will stand up to them, with a stiff upper lip and daring-do" approach, they automatically switched to that mode. But this is a virus. It doesn't work that way. You can't play "mind games" with a thing that's not even living, much less has no mind.
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tufty
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

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KlaxonCow wrote: So, yeah, still a fraction of one percent, even at the epicentre of the worst case of it so far.
Yep. That's a fucking long way from "Herd Immunity".

Now, assuming the Chinese figures are exact, which I personally doubt - they changed the way they count cases at the same time their graph magically inflected - why do they have such a vanishingly small number of infections relative to population size? The answer is because they have locked everything the fuck down. Little or no person to person contact means little or no spread of the virus. But as soon as they relax that lockdown, if there's even a single infectious person out there, they're back to square one, and all but that vanishingly small percentage of people are at risk all over again.

Which implies we're in this for the long haul. Until there's either a cure, a vaccine, or the virus dies out all by itself, which it's not going to do any time soon. It's taken 6 weeks of lockdown for China to get where it (says it) is today.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by Rhythm »

Ex had a meeting at work yesterday, they're all working from home for 12 weeks. I've been WFH for almost 5 years now, it's been semi-amusing watching people adapt to this :-)

Biggest issue I can see with the UK so far is the refusal to shut down schools. Of course if they do then there's no way they're going back this academic year, but this is a pretty extraordinary situation.

Did a daily supermarket shop yesterday. Local Asda is getting pretty bare. No meats, loo roll, canned goods. Even the vegan stuff is getting thin on the ground :-/

Still, mildly better than my shopping yesterday where I ended up in a queue and the dirty fucker behind me did a big wet cough onto the back of my neck. I've already been spraying shopping as I get it into the house but I immediately had to use Dettol wipes to bleach my head the moment I got back home
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