Coronavirus Pandemic

Inane baanter or words of wisdom - you decide...
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by Foozwah »

tufty wrote:
Foozwah wrote:[ realise that this is a completely insane idea, one that Alex Jones and those uncritically amplifying his latest paranoid bullshit seem incapable of grasping, but it is actually possible to own a smartphone and...not take it absolutely everywhere you go, 24/7.
Sure, but if you're really paranoid, you'd need someone or something to make it move around a bit in the house when you're not there. Otherwise "they" will know you're cheating.

Maybe tape it to a roomba :)
Heh, I have a house rabbit. She won't necessarily like it, but she can be my roomba substitute.
gilesgoat wrote:Until you'll be obliged to have one and carry it with you if you want to go anywhere.

Look it's already like that in Italy, with papers in the place of the phone, YOU CAN NOT LITERALLY TAKE A WALK OUT <WHATEVER> WITHOUT CARRYING A JUSTIFICATION/AUTHORIZATION PAPER AND POLICE IS STOPPING/FINING PEOPLE ALL OVER THE PLACES !

The step to "carry papers" to "obliged to have the phone with you" could be very minimal.

Read the news there was that guy in South Korea that was Coronavirus positive, was forced of the phone and stay home, he forgot one night to charge it the phone went offline, 6AM in the morning he had a SWAT team breaking into his house questioning him wtf he's done and reminding him it was HIS obligation to keep it ALWAYS working.

The Roomba is lightly pointless I think the 'resolution' of a phone is the GSM "cell" you are in which anyway it's a sufficiently detailed resolution, fact is you cell needs to be pinging a phone tower or you'd be without carrier, that's how they target you, plus there's GPS in basically every phone, they can get your GPS coords all time.

The thing is all this exists already inside your phone without the need of any app being installed, it would be sufficient for google/GSM providers to pass those infos to whoever they want.
Giles mate, I agree with you on so many things, but not this. Alex Jones' business model is preying on peoples' (sometimes understandable) fear and paranoia, by stoking it to unreasonable levels, in order to boost his ratings and sell you crap.

You've already sort of debunked your own original post about the tracking app just here, by pointing out to us that the roomba thing (a joke, but anyway) is unnecessary since tracking is limited to cel tower pings anyway.

You know that. I know that. We all know that.. And yet here we have Alex Jones' "OMG there's an app that will track you!" nonsense... which is... once again... just amplification of paranoid bullshit. It serves NO purpose...apart from making otherwise reasonable people paranoid and fearful.

As for making carrying a phone with you everywhere mandatory, let's be realistic. What about the people that don't have phones? That can't afford them? What about kids? What about the fact that the single biggest impediment to smartphone usage for the average person is just keeping the bastard charged for an entire day, without having to plug it into a wall outlet or an additional portable battery pack?

It's not a small step from having to have ID papers (in certain cirumstances) to everyone having to carry a smartphone 24/7. It's a HUGE one with any number of hurdles that the non-tech format of simple ID doesn't have, and more importantly there are any number of quite reasonable reasons why one isn't/can't/doesn't carry a smartphone, none of which applies to paper/plastic ID.

Like Tufty said, stop listening to Jones. You're a good person, a kind and caring and sensitive guy, as far as I can see. While he is a vile, racist, homophobic piece of shit - FFS, he has even openly professed his hatred of _nerds_... Here's a choice quote from your "truth" provider of choice:

"I tell ya folks, nerds are one of the most dangerous groups in this country, because they're gonna end up running things, but they still hate everybody, because they weren't the jocks in high school, so they play little dirty games on everybody. [begins pointing to head] They use their brains to hurt people. And I'm aware of them. Ok, I'mma — I SEE YOU, YOU LITTLE RATS!"

Yeah, I'm going to take tech tips from that guy...
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by Dio »

The key question: how many lives does it have to save to make mandatory personal location tracking acceptable?

That's an entirely serious question because it's a way that at least a proportion of the debate is likely to be framed. And yes, it does go beyond just this particular use case, and yes, there are definitely harmful ways in which this can be used.

Then there's the second question: how far have we already stepped down the road of personal location tracking already, and how incrementally meaningful would it therefore be to take that step?
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by Harlequin »

gilesgoat wrote:The Roomba is lightly pointless I think the 'resolution' of a phone is the GSM "cell" you are in which anyway it's a sufficiently detailed resolution, fact is you cell needs to be pinging a phone tower or you'd be without carrier, that's how they target you, plus there's GPS in basically every phone, they can get your GPS coords all time.
Tape it to Skippy.
gilesgoat wrote:Do I trust the governments/politcians ? NO, never, ever !
Do not (unconditionally) trust anyone else either. Especially not the likes of Jones.

There are degrees of trust, however. For example, I trust the BBC more than I trust Fox News. Not that I entirely trust the former about absolutely everything nor think that I should only believe the opposite of every statement made by anyone on the latter. Life is not binary. And a watch that is a couple of seconds slow may never be absolutely correct but I would rely on it more that a stopped one that is absolutely right twice a day.

Even I lie sometimes, despite endeavouring never to make untruthful statements.
tufty wrote:And the lizard people.
Who are, just by pure coincidence, all Jewish.
And all this time I thought the Queen was a gentile reptile!
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

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Harlequin wrote: And all this time I thought the Queen was a gentile reptile!
Ah, but that's how they grab power. Come to earth, become head of the local religion, corrupt it with their evil je^H^Hreptilian ways.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

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Have a good one

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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

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Dio wrote:The key question: how many lives does it have to save to make mandatory personal location tracking acceptable?

That's an entirely serious question because it's a way that at least a proportion of the debate is likely to be framed. And yes, it does go beyond just this particular use case, and yes, there are definitely harmful ways in which this can be used.

Then there's the second question: how far have we already stepped down the road of personal location tracking already, and how incrementally meaningful would it therefore be to take that step?
Here we go down a really deep rabbit hole that ends up in God, Evil and free will and freedom.

I am sorry "I can not accept men to try to take the hands of God and play God".

I think an extremely important part of existence is that "there are thing beyond human control" someone could say "I'd rather die free that not die but live my life in a golden cage" and I am sure it's already been said many times.

The second question goes "because some people like to live in golden cages as long as it's comfy and they have minimal efforts for doing so", if it'd turn out "all this tech and stuff we built so far ends up in building a cage for all of us for the future to" I would not hesitate to step back , even at the cost of destorying everything that's been done.

Or at least "give me an option to be somewhere out of all this", throw me away in some empty planet or such.

We are going into territory of Logan's Run and shit like that, and if things go even worse we are going into Soilent Green as well.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by Dio »

But we already did that, right?

Everyone has pretty much agreed to have every financial transaction made trackable. Almost everyone has made their location coarsely permanently trackable, by carrying a phone. A majority of people have already made their exact location trackable.

And if you told people they couldn't do these things, but had to only use cash and not carry a phone or turn it on only when you needed it, they would complain: society clearly believes this is a win. So is there any point in fighting it any more? I'm generally a suspicious chap about these things, but I'm not prepared to back my principles by giving up my credit card or phone.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by gilesgoat »

Dio wrote:*SNIP* but I'm not prepared to back my principles by giving up my credit card or phone.
I am.

[edit] - if you stop fighting, if you even just think there's no point in fighting, if you can't back up your own principles .. then why you live ? It's all over !

You are not living, you are "product" of the "system".
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

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F-ZeroOne wrote:https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/10/1936245/-OMG-Trump-says-the-germ-is-a-genius-so-smart-the-antibiotic-can-t-keep-up-with-it

This is being reported as Trump doesn't know the difference between a bacteria and a virus (including the above link) and why antibiotics don't work on them. However - and I say this as someone who is no fan of Trump at all - if you listen carefully to the actual clip, I don't think hes actually claiming that; I think hes speaking a bit more generally than rather specifically about the virus. I am saying this only to be absolutely fair. I really, really do not like him.

Edit: he does say "The germ has gotten so brilliant... the antibiotic can't keep up with it" but the statement is so vague he may not be specifically referring to COVID-19. Just possibly.
Just like Trump's products, I'm not buying it.
He doesn't know what he is talking about.
His scrambled brain remembered something he once heard about antibiotic resistance and thought it was why COVID-19 was so difficult to treat.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by Dio »

gilesgoat wrote:
Dio wrote:*SNIP* but I'm not prepared to back my principles by giving up my credit card or phone.
I am.

[edit] - if you stop fighting, if you even just think there's no point in fighting, if you can't back up your own principles .. then why you live ? It's all over !

You are not living, you are "product" of the "system".
So let's get this quite clear: you don't have a phone and never pay by a credit / debit card?
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by gilesgoat »

Dio wrote:
gilesgoat wrote:
Dio wrote:*SNIP* but I'm not prepared to back my principles by giving up my credit card or phone.
I am.

[edit] - if you stop fighting, if you even just think there's no point in fighting, if you can't back up your own principles .. then why you live ? It's all over !

You are not living, you are "product" of the "system".
So let's get this quite clear: you don't have a phone and never pay by a credit / debit card?
I don't have a phone, I never use/carry one with me, the only time I use one is when I travel to tell my mum "I am at the airport you can pick me up", it's an old iPhone can't remember what primitive version that is normally at home never charged ( not working ) used only in that occasion.

I don't have any credit card, I have one debit card but I tend to get cash out of the cash machine because in that way "I can see and count what I spend", despite being "pratical" I see I am quite a non-believer in contactless paying because you can too easily over spend, I like cash in hands, plus they don't know the shit I am buying which in 90% of cases is :

- curry
- sheep food / equipment
- human food
- 1/2 pint down the pub, occasionally an egg/bag of crisps
- hardware

Yes I do buy online stuff (*) because I don't have another choice but it's mostly stuff "without any importance", this is because really I cannot pay by cash/other means and I can't buy it locally because they don't have it.

I don't usually have any other sort of tech with me when I travel nor on a day to day basis, I seldom move around.

The point is "I don't want to make it easy for anyone to know", there may be times "I can't avoid stepping into certain territories" but I don't accept it's "right what they do" or that "it's ok someone could know" or such, pisses me off that "everybody seems to accept, nobody complains".

Pisses me off that lot of people seems to be with this attitude of "it's the way things go, there's nothing we can do about it" without even TRYING to make someting change.

My "part" is to try to live with as less stuff as I can "avoiding at max all I can avoid" , they are destroying privacy, freedom, choice, property and we are all "just things to suck money and work from" they fill us up with "things to buy" "ads to watch" "free stuff that is not free" "stuff good for you that is not good for you" "models of things you should be or have" ( that you really don't ) they are making us "not to think, not to react to stuff unless is the way they want us to react or think".

This "technology" really I start to feel it more "oppressive" the more time passes, it's not the technology I love and love, or maybe it's the way they are using it.

And I am not even sure if it's more "the tech" I should be scared about or the people "behind the tech" and those "using the tech" not caring about what happens when they use it.

I feel it's getting a world that is getting closer and closer to those dystopian sci-fi stories that used to be precisely just story to amuse and entertain and now it's becoming sad scary reality !

I still love to bits "my old z80" I really do, but that was never meant to be global surveilleance, or big data, or fighter drones or shit like that .. that's not the tech I love.

Nice the times where a phone was just a phone, a watch was just a watch, a calculator was just a calculator and there was no spyware or malware or adware going in it or a "permanent connection with Google" !!

It's getting "reverse" where now "the absence of information" is more valuable and rare that "information" which there's definitely too much around.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by Little stoned kiwi »

I find it strange you don't like using open-source software.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by zip accident »

gilesgoat wrote:
Dio wrote:
gilesgoat wrote:
Dio wrote:*SNIP* but I'm not prepared to back my principles by giving up my credit card or phone.
I am.

[edit] - if you stop fighting, if you even just think there's no point in fighting, if you can't back up your own principles .. then why you live ? It's all over !

You are not living, you are "product" of the "system".
So let's get this quite clear: you don't have a phone and never pay by a credit / debit card?
I don't have a phone, I never use/carry one with me, the only time I use one is when I travel to tell my mum "I am at the airport you can pick me up", it's an old iPhone can't remember what primitive version that is normally at home never charged ( not working ) used only in that occasion.

I don't have any credit card, I have one debit card but I tend to get cash out of the cash machine because in that way "I can see and count what I spend", despite being "pratical" I see I am quite a non-believer in contactless paying because you can too easily over spend, I like cash in hands, plus they don't know the shit I am buying which in 90% of cases is :

- curry
- sheep food / equipment
- human food
- 1/2 pint down the pub, occasionally an egg/bag of crisps
- hardware

Yes I do buy online stuff (*) because I don't have another choice but it's mostly stuff "without any importance", this is because really I cannot pay by cash/other means and I can't buy it locally because they don't have it.

I don't usually have any other sort of tech with me when I travel nor on a day to day basis, I seldom move around.

The point is "I don't want to make it easy for anyone to know", there may be times "I can't avoid stepping into certain territories" but I don't accept it's "right what they do" or that "it's ok someone could know" or such, pisses me off that "everybody seems to accept, nobody complains".

Pisses me off that lot of people seems to be with this attitude of "it's the way things go, there's nothing we can do about it" without even TRYING to make someting change.

My "part" is to try to live with as less stuff as I can "avoiding at max all I can avoid" , they are destroying privacy, freedom, choice, property and we are all "just things to suck money and work from" they fill us up with "things to buy" "ads to watch" "free stuff that is not free" "stuff good for you that is not good for you" "models of things you should be or have" ( that you really don't ) they are making us "not to think, not to react to stuff unless is the way they want us to react or think".

This "technology" really I start to feel it more "oppressive" the more time passes, it's not the technology I love and love, or maybe it's the way they are using it.

And I am not even sure if it's more "the tech" I should be scared about or the people "behind the tech" and those "using the tech" not caring about what happens when they use it.

I feel it's getting a world that is getting closer and closer to those dystopian sci-fi stories that used to be precisely just story to amuse and entertain and now it's becoming sad scary reality !

I still love to bits "my old z80" I really do, but that was never meant to be global surveilleance, or big data, or fighter drones or shit like that .. that's not the tech I love.

Nice the times where a phone was just a phone, a watch was just a watch, a calculator was just a calculator and there was no spyware or malware or adware going in it or a "permanent connection with Google" !!

It's getting "reverse" where now "the absence of information" is more valuable and rare that "information" which there's definitely too much around.
It's not so much the tech, it's the idiocy of the people who control it, who want to control us, but don't understand that just because they don't understand it it doesn't stop working. They want to ban encryption because it's used by crooks, but it's also used by banks to stop crooks from robbing us, and if they ban it the crooks will keep on robbing us and they won't stop using it themselves because they are crooks so they don't care that it's now illegal.
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by KlaxonCow »

The technology, though, isn't the problem.

If a machine is programmed to anonymise data, to respect privacy, to benefit humanity, and all the rest of it, then it will dutifully carry that out, with absolute unfaltering perfection. We can trust the machines.

It's the human beings that are the problem. The "programmers".

Human beings with their horrible needs for prestige. For status. Be that in the form of power, money or fame.

It's the same old same old:



Human psychology is broken in a hundred pieces.

Unrequited love. "They fuck you up, your mum and dad". Getting some kind of spiritual vengeance on those school bullies. Superstimulation on sugar, adrenaline, sex, applause. The naked ape cowers in fear of the unknown. Magical thinking. Mligram obedience to authority. Cognitive bias. False memory. False kin. The Platonic Noble Lies of money, gods and nation - none of which actually exist, we just made them all up. Psychological projection and inappropriate anthropomorphism. Pareidolia. Conspiracy theories. The mind games of interpersonal relationships. The dread of shame and embarrassment. Gullibility and wishful thinking. The instinct towards "conservation of energy" - to be exactly as lazy as reality will allow.

Power corrupts. Because everyone imagines - playing the "if I ruled the world" game - that they could fix this broken world. But, in truth, "with great power comes great responsibility" - so with absolute power comes absolute responsibility. Everything is the government's fault.

You imagine power to be great, but it sucks. It's now all on you. Every miserable complaint in the entire world is now your remit to personally fix. Every single one. "The buck stops here" and all that.

It's an impossible task. There is no such person who's remotely near qualified. And that's why power ultimately corrupts - because you can't meet the impossible demands, so you start lying, cheating, and absolving yourself of responsibility. Because you have to. It's too much. It's impossible. And once you start doing that, which you necessarily must, then it's a slippery slope all th way down to Hell. There's a common delusion that, somehow, if we could only find that "good man" or "good woman" to wield the impossible responsibility, then it'll all be fine. It's fully irrelevant, as there is no such person. Understand that's no sleight on anyone - it's just the qualifications themselves are impossible, so there is no possibility of any singular human being ever fitting the job description, no matter how bloody good they are.

The qualifications start at omniscience and omnipotence - and don't go looking for a god to fill those shoes, because they simply aren't there (well, to be more precise, "there are no gods" isn't a statement one can factually make - maybe there are, who knows? - but I prefer to phrase it as "this is a godless universe", so even if Loki or Shiva or whoever is really out there somewhere, it's irrelevant because all the gods are clearly following a 100% non-interventionist policy to the point where they might as well not be there, for all the fat lot of sweet fuck all they do to balance this chaotic existence).

To quote ol' Uncle Abe: "No man is good enough to govern another".

(Sure, his context was more specifically slavery. But, you know, degrees and measures. The principle holds, I feel, across the spectrum. To borrow another Lincoln quote that puts the other in its "broad spectrum" context: “As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy". Slavery is one of its extremes, and democracy attempts to be, as much as possible, its opposite extreme. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of that difference, "no man is good enough to govern another". If you see what I'm saying. The more "govern another" is involved, the more "no man is good enough" applies.)

So, go on, read everyone's emails.

There's 2.3 million husbands cheating on their wives. Philip is secretly gay. Michael is into kinky dwarf porn. Bob's a communist. Alice stole from the charity box yesterday.

Read the lives of all 7 billion of us. You'll get bored of it all by page 4.

Google is telling the government that I went to Tesco's today. Great. I hope they're thrilled for me.

Don't get me wrong. Lest we forget, the Dutch government, before the war, included "religion" on their census forms - as do most other governments - and this seems harmless enough, as they were just compiling statistics to help with the job of governance. But then the Nazis invaded. And, unintentionally, they'd handed over the names and addresses of every Jew in the country to Hitler, which made rounding them all up to send on the trains to the concentration camps, before they had the chance to escape, all the more easier to do.

This example stays in my mind. Even if you're being perfectly benign, then just don't take information you don't need, lest it ends up in the wrong hands, who will abuse it. And we don't have to go back to the war for examples either - this is kind of much the same as what happened with Cambridge Analytica, yes? Facebook wants your data for ads. But others, mining into that data, want it for far less benign reasons.

No man is good enough to govern another. They all, of course, think they are but they're quite, quite wrong - their belief otherwise just shows how horribly unqualified and dumb they really are (that Groucho Marx quote: "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"). And whatever differs from this, to the extent of that difference, is no democracy.

The thing that guides me is to consider how long Britain and France were at war. Now they're our "entente cordiale" allies. How we fought the Americans gaining their independence, but now we have "a special relationship". Or the World Wars against Germany and Japan. But now these guys are our friends.

Friends, enemies, friends, enemies. In this fleeting moment, it might seem the most important thing ever - worth fighting wars over. But, in the fullness of time, it all ends up being perfectly immaterial. Pointless.

I'm fine with the machines. Our silicon buddies are our best friends forever in an otherwise empty universe.

But the humans? They're all psychologically broken. None of them - myself included - is anywhere near qualified to govern another. Democracy is the compromise we pragmatically have to make to get anything working, as far removed as we can be from anyone "owning" another. You doubtless know Churchill's quote: "Democracy is the worst possible system... except for all the others that have been tried". It's not good, per se, it's just better than everything else that's even worse still.

Perhaps now, in this moment, Sartre's quote could not be so relevant: "Hell is other people".
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Re: Coronavirus Pandemic

Post by KlaxonCow »

Ollie wrote:Incidentally, regarding the "herd immunity" strategy that they're supposedly no longer pursuing: https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/09/leak ... 19-anyway/

Comes as no surprise really that the strategy still appears to be to allow 80% of us to get it, just to spread it out enough that the NHS can cope with as little increased resources as they can get away with.
As I've said before, you don't aim for "herd immunity".

It's something that'll eventually naturally come about anyway. This is a total non-plan.

It's like aiming for natural selection to happen or for gravity to work. You don't have to do that, it'll inevitably happen anyway, as it simply can't not happen by the rules of logic and the universe.

We should aim for eradication. And, note, that's not at all impossible with viruses: Smallpox is extinct. Polio is very close to extinction, clinging on to small pockets in Africa.

And, right now, as bad as things look, we have the best opportunity we'll ever have to do it. As we have most of the world under simultaneous lockdown, with something that's attempting to establish itself but isn't endemic just yet.

In theory, if every country on planet Earth can reach zero new cases for a couple of weeks (plus a couple more to be sure and allow any viruses on surfaces out there to degrade away) simultaneously - and that truly represents a fortnight of absolutely no new infections then, that's it, it's extinct.

Granted, that's a tall order. But this is not an all or nothing. As mentioned, Polio clings to existence in small pockets of Africa. Smallpox, before it, did the same for a while. Even if total elimination isn't achieved, we could get it so damn close to that, that it ceases to be a problem for most of the world and where it clings on, we can, over the years, have a push to eliminating it completely (as is happening with Polio now).

The point is, give it a shot. If it doesn't work out, then we're back at "herd immunity" as the default position anyway.

(And, more over, I'll stress again that what we're doing is generic anti-viral techniques with "social distancing". It's not just coronavirus we're beating back here, but all of the socially communicable viruses are getting clobbered by this simultaneously. In beating back "the big bad" here, we're implicitly also kicking the arse out of "the lesser bads" right now as well. Coronavirus has a longer incubation period than nearly any other virus, so if we can beat this right back, then we might find the less hardy viruses will succumb to that punishment to their means of continued survival long before it. If we push, then we might find the world has a few less strains of the flu or the common cold out there. And, hey, economically: Less sick days off work for everyone.)

Regarding the economy, what we very much need are those antibody tests. Because then we can pick out who's already had it and has immunity to it, and those folks can break "social distancing" and go back to work and normality. With immunity, these people would be safe to go back on the frontline, into care homes and so forth. That's the real way out of lockdown, in a manner that doesn't risk any re-emergence of the virus.

(Yes, some people have worried that this would create a "two tier" system, with some people stuck in lockdown and others not. But, well, that's just the reality we face. The folks in lockdown are there for their own benefit, and the folks outside of lockdown are there because they got this, survived and now, with immunity, should no longer pose a threat to infecting anyone else. You wouldn't design a system this way, perhaps, but it's forced on us by the facts of the reality we face.)

We were promised these antibody tests "within days", but then they were put on the back burner, as their reliability was not deemed up to scratch. But, nonetheless, keep working on it until they are good enough - I mean, this was a "first go" on a completely brand new virus, so it would have been impressive if they had got it 100% on the first attempt - and I'd love to know in what exact way they were unreliable and to what degree. False positives would be bad, as that would put vulnerable people out of lockdown. But false negatives we could tolerate, as it just means folks who could actually be out of lockdown aren't identified as such, and end up stuck indoors when they strictly don't need to be - which ain't ideal, but it's workable, as long as it doesn't potentially encourage the spread of the infection.

The UK government's own science adviser said it: "don't let perfection be the enemy of the good". The test results can be treated as "advisory" and not sacrosanct.

For example, if someone had covid symptoms - so they reckon they've had it - and they come back positive for antibodies 3 times in a row, with tests spaced a week apart, then the odds are that they've had it and are now immune. But it's "advisory", as we know the tests ain't 100%, so if we're not entirely confident - and the person themselves does not consent to take that risk - then they stay in lockdown.

Because, remember, the default here is that we have absolutely everyone everywhere in a blanket ban, as we don't know who's who at all and, thus, have to treat absolutely everyone as "susceptible". But, as this goes on, there's more and more people who've had it and recovered - not that the bloody government has seemingly bothered to keep track of this properly - and those people should be good to go back to work (even with this revelation of potential "re-activation", if they're strictly amongst those who've already had it and have immunity, outside of lockdown, this doesn't encourage the spread).

In the midst of all this - and all the worry - it is worth remembering that the majority of people - in all age brackets - will recover. Currently, at time of writing, we have 1.7 million cases and 404K recoveries (well, from those countries that bother tracking recoveries anyway). Eventually, these numbers will flip and "recovered" will outnumber "confirmed cases". We need a way to safely identify and release the immune back to normality, keeping everyone else in the lockdown.

There is a plan here. The WHO recommendations make sense. Eradication is possible - it's been done with viruses before - and if we fail at that, then we're back to "herd immunity" as the default anyway, so why not give it a shot? And even if we don't get total eradication, then we could still get damn close to it, consigning it to a "dull roar" in the background, with ongoing work to find those small pockets of resistance and flush them out (when the population of infected is tiny, then we can very much do the pro-active testing and contract tracing shit to lock it down fast - which we should have been doing, a la South Korea and Germany, in the first place. But, this time, governments know to take this perfectly seriously and that it's NOT helping the economy in the slightest to wave it off as "just the flu" - if we'd had all international flights stopped, ramping up of testing before it hit, etc. then we'd have this under control by now. It's not "health versus the economy" here, that's a false dichotomy - the economy, as we're seeing, just can't function properly and requires insane "bail outs" to prop up, so we must sort the health problem or we won't get the economy back on its feet. Lift the lockdowns prematurely, and it'll come back with a vengeance, and you'll be forced back into lockdown again. But keep with this current lockdown until we have squashed this bugger right down, and then we can lift it with much less chance of re-emergence, that it can remain open. It's not just the right thing to do for health, it's the right thing to do economically - because businesses can't function if all their employees are off sick and / or dead).

This is just a bizarre perfectly unnecessary surrender. You don't aim for "herd immunity". You aim for better than that - and you'll end up with "herd immunity" by default anyway, whatever you do, if this can't be managed in the longer term.

Like, eventually, all of us are going to die. Death is inevitable. But this doesn't mean immediately jumping out of a 16th storey window to bring about your death right now. You attempt to stay alive and keep living. You'll eventually fail, in good time - and perhaps these efforts will eventually fail to control it in the longer term - but you give it a bloody good go in the meantime, right?

"Do not go gentle into that good night,
Rage rage against the dying of the light"
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
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