Coronavirus Pandemic

[Deckard]

Can the collateral economic damage of staying in lockdown cause more death / problems than coming out earlier and "living" with the virus ?

[Harlequin]

The free market in votes will be for people over business the next time he faces the polls.

Speaking of which, older people tend to vote conservative (and actually bother to vote), while younger people tend to be more liberal.
Have the world's conservatives - Trump, Boris, Macron, etc. - not realised yet that this virus is disproportionately targeting their voter base yet?

I did wonder that. However, it also seems to be disproportionately killing poor and non-white people.

[TFO]

Can the collateral economic damage of staying in lockdown cause more death / problems than coming out earlier and "living" with the virus ?

That’s one hell of a question....

Maybe die now or maybe die later

[tufty]

Can the collateral economic damage of staying in lockdown cause more death / problems than coming out earlier and "living" with the virus ?

That idea is one being put forward by the cunts who want to hang on to the idea that perpetual growth is somehow sustainable. The cunts who are already coining it in betting against the economy, but who are now worried that their investments in futures are about to tank. Fuck the economy, and fuck them.

[Dio]

It isn't a question just asked by right-wingers. This thing is going to shit on the poor a lot worse than the rich either way. But even then - see this:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... left-right

This article today sums up some of the fault lines and explains why it's probably not a good idea to simplify it so much and immediately line up behind our chosen ideological team.

[Little stoned kiwi]

There's been a communist/socialist bend to popular thinking. Everyone has been working out the economy is driven by the "poorest". The factory workers, the drivers, the shelf stackers, the couriers...all the way down to the slave labour of China. Not up. The ultra wealthy have done sweet fa as far as most people are concerned.
The poor will suffer from the economic impact as our skies clear and rivers run clean, but will wonder why they are and they ultra rich aren't. Why we have to climb back in our cars every morning, at the expense of time with our loved ones and environment, to justify existence to our capitalist overlords.
When first home buyers are made homeless by a slump in the housing market they will see those with existing capital gains under their belts refinance at a time of low interest to snap up the house the same bank took at a bargain price.

People will be pissed.

[Cloudane]

Yeah if the economy is fucked it's not the rich who'll suffer, it never is, it's always the poor, the little guy, who is forced to bail out the overlords.

Thing is, if people do hypothetically get the communist revolution they want out of this, then a lot of things propped up on giant capitalist empires (like say, most of the internet) will come crashing down as well. It'll get very very shit. Do be careful what you wish for...

[Harlequin]

Thing is, if people do hypothetically get the communist revolution they want out of this, then a lot of things propped up on giant capitalist empires (like say, most of the internet) will come crashing down as well. It'll get very very shit. Do be careful what you wish for...

Which people want that? I would think that the vast majority of people who want to see a change in Government priorities after this only desire a bit more socialism rather than a toppling of democracy.

[Harlequin]

As for the economy, it appears that it was in decline anyway. I am expecting the economic fallout of Brexit to be blamed solely on this virus.

[Little stoned kiwi]

The coronavirus is a golden trade oppertunity for the UK. Well, it could have been if the virus itself hadn't been allowed to get carried away.

[Cloudane]

Thing is, if people do hypothetically get the communist revolution they want out of this, then a lot of things propped up on giant capitalist empires (like say, most of the internet) will come crashing down as well. It'll get very very shit. Do be careful what you wish for...

Which people want that? I would think that the vast majority of people who want to see a change in Government priorities after this only desire a bit more socialism rather than a toppling of democracy.

A lot of the far left on other forums, Reddit etc. Lot of crazies out there

Nothing wrong with wanting a bit of democratic socialism.

[Little stoned kiwi]

How's this for a laugh? The Taxpayers Union is a not-for-profit libertarian organisation. From their own website:

As confirmed by the Government today, the New Zealand Taxpayers' Union is one of the many employers that have accepted the COVID-19 Wage Subsidy. This decision was made on the basis of our ethical obligations to staff during the government-mandated economic shutdown.

The decision to accept this subsidy was not as simple for us as for most organisations. Prior to COVID-19, we have stated on the record that we would never accept taxpayer funding. That commitment was, of course, made in a time few New Zealanders could possibly have anticipated COVID-19 and the ensuing economic situation.

After brief deliberation, the Taxpayers' Union board determined the welfare of our employees to be a more pressing immediate concern than ideological purity.

Apparently it's ethical to go against the ethics they want to enforce.

[tufty]

You're right, of course, it's not a question of a left-right divide. At least not yet.

We have, however, hit a point very similar to that of 1929; it has once again become painfully evident that rampant capitalism is zero-sum.

The divide is stark. Countries that listened to the science, like South Korea, have less total cases of infection than the countries that listened to the economists, like France and the UK, have total deaths. For those countries that listened to the scientists rather than the economists, it's pretty much business as usual. The rest of us are shut down, staring down a massive recession, and listening to the economists starting to blame the scientists.

"The WHO called it wrong" is being pushed into the mainstream consciousness. Did they fuck. On the 15th of January they pointed out the need for Asia to step up its preparations, and on the 23rd,

It is expected that further international exportation of cases may appear in any country. Thus, all countries should be prepared for containment, including active surveillance, early detection, isolation and case management, contact tracing and prevention of onward spread of 2019-nCoV infection, and to share full data with WHO

Pretty much 3 months later, and we still haven't managed to get enough testing together to be able to test everyone presenting symptoms, let alone do contact tracing, testing and isolation. The countries who listened to the economists have royally fucked the pooch, and it's clear to everyone who has an internet connection and the time to idly browse the statistics. But who's got the time to do that? Oh, yes, pretty much everyone, because we're all fucking locked down with fuck all to do.

It's very simple.

Korea has a few thousand active cases out of 10 thousand total, and low hundreds of deaths. New infections are at a vanishingly low level, and have been since the beginning of March.
France has around a hundred thousand active cases, out of hundred and fifty thousand or so total, and over 15 thousand deaths. New infections are now down to the 5 thousand per day level, and this is being trumpeted as success.

Listening to the economists has killed, through fear of economic loss, 15 thousand people in France so far, and fucked the economy to boot. The UK is on the same curve, a few days behind. But now they* need to reopen the economy, lest we "lose". Sure, unlocking the lockdown will mean people die, but there's money at stake here.

In France, they're* starting to raise the question of how far they* can raise the work week to when we go back, in order to get rid of the debt that all this shaking of the magic money tree will cause. 39 hours a week? 45 hours a week? 50 hours a week? For the same salary as before, or course. Yeah, it's the poor, the workers who will pay for it all. But at the same time, we have the President standing up saying that people should be paid according to their value to society.

They* are afraid that their system is about to fall down. Between the need to address climate change and (amongst other things) the global downturn and mass immigration that it will inevitably bring, and now the fact they have utterly shat all over the goose that lays their golden eggs, they're staring into the jaws of the monster. There's basically 2 options.

1 - Fuck the poor some more and kick the can further down the road
2 - Change to they system, even if it's only a band-aid.

I suspect Macron is beginning to realise that (1) leads to either 1917 or 1932/3/4/6. His having to fight against the unlovely Mme Le Pen probably drives that home rather more than it does to, for example, Saint Boris, who has only had to appease the extremists he agrees with for the moment.

In the words of one of my brother's band's songs**,

They promise you this, and they promise you that,
they must think you're a bunch of twats.
Do you believe every word they say?
Where will you stand on judgement day?
Bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit
It's a load of fucking bullshit

* yeah, I'm using the conspiracy theorist's "they" here, but there's not really a choice. Opinion is being manipulated
** Neve thought they'd ever be even remotely profound.

[Little stoned kiwi]

Given the willingness to sacrifice lives for the sake of the GDP, I'm surprised they haven't realised burning the dead to generate electricity would help the GDP even more.

[gilesgoat]

Given the willingness to sacrifice lives for the sake of the GDP, I'm surprised they haven't realised burning the dead to generate electricity would help the GDP even more.

It's just because it does not work that well, actually lot of energy is required to burn a body, if we take 'as source of info' certain WW2 reports it would appear it kinda works only if you are burning lot of bodies in a pit.

Now Soilent Green instead .. that could be something .. I think we could be all easily transformed into Pink Slime/Slurry and mixed with heck what and turned into burger patties or chicken mc nuggets or that 'new 100% NO beef burger" </dark humor>