Urgent question for Giles (re: Coffee)

[phattslagg]

By the way, I did find this video:



Some points of interest, not least of which is that they seem to think that the amount of water is critical, to the degree that a teaspoonful either way can make all the difference.

Maybe I’ve been overlooking this? I tend to fill it until it’s touching the bottom of the pressure valve. I’ll definitely be taking notes as to whether this is a deciding factor.

However, I’m not convinced that his moka pot is achieving what I’m getting here: that foaming device just looks like cheating to me, and is as likely to be disguising bad brews with so-called “crema”. It takes more than adding bubbles.

[phattslagg]

*Update*

So I’m getting somewhere, now. I’ve pretty much narrowed it to the point where I always get at least a decent bloom or “crema” (although I think that term should really be reserved for what you get from an espresso machine) and fairly often get the amazing foam. Most importantly, even when it’s not perfect, I’m still getting really nice coffee.

The key thing turned out to be the water temperature, which I had cleverly ruled out before

Turns out using freshly boiled water from the kettle makes a big difference after all. Then the tamping/density of coffee, which I’m getting better at, too.

Previously, I had been putting a bit of cold water into the base first, to take the edge off the boiled water.

[Jamesac]

You are planning on an exhaustive step-by-step set of instructions once you've got this nailed down, right?

Nice job on the research, by the way. Scientific progress at its finest.

[phattslagg]

Well, coffee lovers, it’s been a while since my last update, and the reason is a sad one. Basically, rather like the drugs suddenly stopped working in that Awakenings film, my barista juju suddenly vanished.

But - there have been one or two occasions when I’ve come close, including today, and I think I might have discovered why.

I rinsed the coffee basket properly. And every time I’ve done this more rigorously than usual, the coffee has foamed much better. I think I need to find a way to deep clean it - possibly a spell in the dishwasher will do it...

[gilesgoat]

Well, coffee lovers, it’s been a while since my last update, and the reason is a sad one. Basically, rather like the drugs suddenly stopped working in that Awakenings film, my barista juju suddenly vanished.

But - there have been one or two occasions when I’ve come close, including today, and I think I might have discovered why.

I rinsed the coffee basket properly. And every time I’ve done this more rigorously than usual, the coffee has foamed much better. I think I need to find a way to deep clean it - possibly a spell in the dishwasher will do it...

Recently I had a problem with the gasket in my moka, it consumed

So for the moment I re-sorted to "Turkish coffee".

I do it like this :

1. put about 1 cup of water in a small pot
2. dissolve about 1 1/2 teaspoon of sugar
3. put it on fire ( max ) 6 in my electric thing
4. spread Lavazza coffee on top while it's still cold, do not mix "an amount as you think it should fit"
5. leave it boil vigorously, it should start bubbling crazy quite soon
6. as soon a 5 happens remove it from fire
7. repeat 5,6 2 more times for a total of 3 boils ( so the lore about Turkish coffee says )

Now .. the STRANGE thing is that already the first time at '5' you can see quite an amount of that "cream" coming out.

Which makes me think .. "so what about pressure ?" .. it seems more a thing about "temperature" ??

Also if you STIR before or after .. results vary ...

If found out that spreading the coffee on top WITHOUT stirring and make it boil fast seems to produce more cream.

Mah .. needs more study .. but certainly you CAN make some of that cream even in just a pot.

[phattslagg]

OK - I cleaned the moka pot in the dishwasher last night and the first brew I made today was the best one I’ve made in a couple of months. Decent foam - not quite like the video I posted, but I’d give it 8/10 - so this is clearly an important factor.

[(o)(o)]

Not the same thing ofc but IMHO the little Lavazza espresso machine is pretty decent, and each capsule is 'perfectly' tamped and I don't feel bad using capsules now they can be composted.

Worked out around £40 for the machine (which is heftier than it looks) and approx 16p a cup...

Here's one I made earlier.

Just look at the taste of that!

[VNVObit]

Not the same thing ofc but IMHO the little Lavazza espresso machine is pretty decent, and each capsule is 'perfectly' tamped and I don't feel bad using capsules now they can be composted.

Worked out around £40 for the machine (which is heftier than it looks) and approx 16p a cup...

Here's one I made earlier.

Just look at the taste of that!

+1 for Lavazza capsule machine
where are you getting capsules at that price?
My last order was 256 for £52

[phattslagg]

Those machines are ok for an office or something, but where’s the fun? There’s no art to them at al.

[gilesgoat]

Those machines are ok for an office or something, but where’s the fun? There’s no art to them at al.

I had some coffe NOT from THAT machine in particular but "some of them", last time one "posh" even presented in a super market by someone .. so THE LOOK of coffee "is good" .. "looking good" .. but THE TASTE .. HUM ..

Depends really a lot of the machine/type of stuff .. I had that NESPRESSO.. I wasn't very impressed ... I had some other stuff OK must be said "better than most commercial UK coffee"

It's like a real Bar Espresso ? NO .. is it "acceptable" ? .. well "results may vary a lot" IMHO I had only a few of those from people insisting me to try it some were "okeish" some were not.

[VNVObit]

Those machines are ok for an office or something, but where’s the fun? There’s no art to them at al.

I had some coffe NOT from THAT machine in particular but "some of them", last time one "posh" even presented in a super market by someone .. so THE LOOK of coffee "is good" .. "looking good" .. but THE TASTE .. HUM ..

Depends really a lot of the machine/type of stuff .. I had that NESPRESSO.. I wasn't very impressed ... I had some other stuff OK must be said "better than most commercial UK coffee"

It's like a real Bar Espresso ? NO .. is it "acceptable" ? .. well "results may vary a lot" IMHO I had only a few of those from people insisting me to try it some were "okeish" some were not.

I used to use


But hard water destroyed it ( have thought of getting it repaired but just never got round to it)

In terms of taste it’s Lavazza so coffee is nice (I don’t like Nespresso either and as for the abomination that is tassimo just no)

Convenience is a plus as i work from home (everywhere is an office to me) in the main (company doesn’t have an office)

[(o)(o)]

Not the same thing ofc but IMHO the little Lavazza espresso machine is pretty decent, and each capsule is 'perfectly' tamped and I don't feel bad using capsules now they can be composted.

Worked out around £40 for the machine (which is heftier than it looks) and approx 16p a cup...

Here's one I made earlier.

Just look at the taste of that!

+1 for Lavazza capsule machine
where are you getting capsules at that price?
My last order was 256 for £52

My mistake checked the order history it was around £104 for 512 so same as you.

I also had a manual espresso machine, what I like about the Mondo Mio thing is the quality (decaf Lavazza also tastes nice!) which is IMHO very good indeed, but especially the ease of use, speed, lack of cleaning and maintenance, and particularly the consistency - with the manual machine it varies from cup to cup depending on the bean toasting and grind and whilst I think I got my tamping skills down pat, it's always going to vary a bit and often not in a good way...

Bit uniform for some tastes perhaps but it's just the ticket for me, I have it with Oatley Barista in a mug and espressos per the pic above which takes about 1 minute!!

[gilesgoat]

Ok this is weird .. .. "I am getting more consistent cream using a simple pot than a moka"

I have a new theory but I think needs more "observation" to confirm or negate it, that the foam is created by "undiluted suspended particles of coffee".

In essence "if the filter would filter them all you would not have cream".

It's also clear to me the foam forms "all in a sudden all in one go" ONE boiling makes the foam form, sequential more boilings destroy it.

[phattslagg]

I’m at the point where I’m beginning to wonder if I should say the Lord’s Prayer in Italian whilst it’s brewing.

[gilesgoat]

I’m at the point where I’m beginning to wonder if I should say the Lord’s Prayer in Italian whilst it’s brewing.

You don't need to, besides I am not even sure I remember ALL the words of it ...

"If *I* can make it coffee with the cream, it maybe means that you should NOT say it at all"

Actually I am getting nearly 99% consistent "cream" IN A POT, by using the method just described, actually "lightly perfectioned" :

1. in a pot "medium size" add about 1 cup of warm water

2. put in a fire "at max"

3. while on fire dissolve 3 teaspoon of water

4. when it's getting close to boil but NOT at boil yet "sprinkle uniformly" an amount of Lazza on top, "secondo gusto" (i.e.
as much as you think it should be - not too little, not too much I suppose ).

5. bring it ONCE to a vigorous boil until it's "all bubbles", DO NOT STIR, DO NOT SHAKE

6. as soon at it boils take immediately out of heat and let it sit

It seems to be working quite well, the coffee tastes good as well after you decant it.