Eurovision 2022

[Mayhem]

I was just surprised we actually scored more points than probably the last 25 years combined

Fully expecting next years contest to be hosted here mind you…

[Little stoned kiwi]

I still have no idea what this is or why Australia is part of it.

[Mayhem]

I still have no idea what this is or why Australia is part of it.

When Eurovision hit 60 in 2015, there was a vote as part of the celebration to allow one country outside Europe to also take part. Australia was voted in. They were so popular, they've been allowed to continue competing since (although have to go through the semi final qualifying stages).

[KlaxonCow]

Only tangentially related to Eurovision, but I found out that the European Broadcasting Union (EBU), who runs Eurovision, actually invented a 64-bit version of WAV files:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RF64

And I found this amusing because, yeah, who else broadcasts for hours upon hours to ever need to extend the traditional WAV file to 64-bits?

Of course it was the EBU who had to come up with this!

The voting section alone often feels like it exceeds the ~7 hours of CD quality sound that a 32-bit WAV file can store...

But, yeah, the EBU actually invented a file format (albeit that it's just a WAV file with a 64-bit size field for bigger files). Who knew?

[NorthWay]

The voting section alone often feels like it exceeds the ~7 hours of CD quality sound that a 32-bit WAV file can store...

Oh, and there for a moment I thought you were talking about 32/64-bit sample resolution...

[KlaxonCow]

Oh, and there for a moment I thought you were talking about 32/64-bit sample resolution...

Yeah, sorry. That was a bit ambiguous, wasn't it?

It's 32-bit / 64-bits size fields, so you can have WAV files bigger than 4GB in size.

[merman]

Eurovision trophy auctioned off to buy drones for Ukraine

[Vargol]

Oh, and there for a moment I thought you were talking about 32/64-bit sample resolution...

Yeah, sorry. That was a bit ambiguous, wasn't it?

It's 32-bit / 64-bits size fields, so you can have WAV files bigger than 4GB in size.

Throw in 7.1 sound and 4Gb probably doesn't last that long, and the channel count in WAV is a 16 bit integer, which is a lot of channels.

[KlaxonCow]

Well, as WAV ain't compressed*, you can actually exactly work that out.

8 channels * 16-bits * 48KHz = 768,000 bytes per second.

So, yeah, around three quarters of a megabyte per second. 46 MB a minute. 2.7GB an hour.

Which is ~11GB for a four hour show.

You're quite right. That happily sails past the 4GB limit without even blinking.

* Well, it is possible for WAV to store compressed data. But, generally, the whole point of using WAV - the reason you're choosing that file format in the first place - is exactly because you want to store the raw uncompressed audio, completely "as is" direct from your microphones.

** I'm using 48KHz rather than "CD quality"'s 44.1KHz, because most HD audio equipment actually slightly ups the sampling rate to 48KHz - "HD quality" - so that's really the standard things are done to today. In theory, human hearing ranges from 20Hz to 20KHz, so 40KHz has a Nyquist frequency of 20KHz and should be capable of sampling everything a human can actually hear. 44.1KHz and 48KHz up it slightly - adding a little "headroom" to be sure - and that's why those sampling rates are "standard".

p.s. Yeah, why was I looking up WAV file formats? Because I was messing around - personal project - making a "generator" app. Kind of like that "sfxr" that creates the random game sound effects, but more flexible and musically minded. If it's any good when I finish it, then I'll public domain it, probably. Need the file format to load up WAVs, then discovered that there are "variants" that I might also want to support loading and saving in.

[Vargol]

Yeah, my experience with WAV was while writing a few noddy Vorbis related tools for BeOS, specially a tool for converting pcm to wav, which was literally write a dummy WAV header followed by the pcm data:-)

[KlaxonCow]

The EBU has decided - perhaps unsurprisingly - that the Eurovision can't really feasibly be held in Ukraine next year.

Ukraine is appealing that decision, hoping they'll change their minds. But, like, it's a war zone right now, so the decision is understandable - and, hey, maybe if things change in the meantime, it can be staged in Ukraine. But the EBU are obliged to consider everyone's safety.

Anyway, as such, the EBU are in talks with the BBC about staging it in the UK instead. Because, you know, the UK was in second place.

Yeah, I know. From "null points" to actually staging it next year. Who'd have thunk it?

[Rhythm]

My wife works for Leeds City Council and they've internally published the details of their pitch to host it.

Which would be fine but Leeds is horrendously over-budget already. We can't even keep on top of trees growing in front of traffic lights, so no idea how we're supposed to be expected to stomach hosting an expensive gig like Eurovision. Plus we don't have any mass transit systems.... I can't see them being successful in the attempt

[KlaxonCow]

My wife works for Leeds City Council and they've internally published the details of their pitch to host it.

Which would be fine but Leeds is horrendously over-budget already.

The Eurovision is paid for by the broadcasters within the Union of the EBU.

Like, the BBC, ITV and S4C - as well as the respective broadcasting members of the competing nations, but those are the British television members - would pay for it.

This is something I don't think people appreciate that this is purely a television event. It has nothing whatsoever to do with governments, or the EU or anything else.

As, no doubt, many Brexit voters were confused as to why, if we've "left Europe", we're still in the Eurovision (though, you know, the fact that, like, Australia - and Israel - is a competing nation of the Eurovision should clue you in that it doesn't really work that way).

No, the European Broadcasting Union is a union of international broadcasters (and their associate members - because, yes, American and Japanese broadcasters are also associate members, in order to have the rights to show the programme in their countries, with PBS in America being the main American broadcaster) who club together to put on the Eurovision, as a television event.

Here's the list of members:

https://www.ebu.ch/about/members

(Yes, the BBC, ITV, S4C and STV in Scotland are EBU members. it's not just the BBC alone. I guess, though, that they had to agree who actually gets to show the programme in the UK and the BBC won that one. I guess S4C's angle is that they have the Welsh language broadcasting rights, and STV the Scottish rights?

It's also worth looking through that list - at the "associate members" - because there are many non-European countries who are like semi-members of the EBU, because they do pay for the broadcasting rights to the show in their respective countries. Like, as well as PBS in America, CBS also chips in to pay for it all.)

This is why there's "the big five" - France, Germany, Spain, the UK, and Italy - who get automatic entry into the final, simply because, well, guess which broadcasters pay the lion's share for the event? They throw in most of the money, so they get guaranteed that, yes, those countries will be in the final.

So, you know, Leeds itself won't be directly paying for it. All these various broadcasters collectively pay for it. That's what the EBU basically is. An international TV "chip in" to stage a big international event - which they then have the broadcasting rights to show in their respective countries.

And it's also why "Eurovision", despite the name, has always had that dubious qualification thing. Like, Israel's been in the Eurovision for a long time, but they're not actually European. And with Australia joining, then the whole "European" thing is well and truly shattered. But, ah, it's more that it was European broadcasters who set up the EBU.

I mean, with any big event, I guess the city hosting it does always have to pay something - for extra policing and such - but the main event is paid for by, well, the TV licence fee, the ads you watch on ITV and S4C, the ads Germans and Italians are watching and so forth.

[Rhythm]

Nice detailed post, KC. Of course the host city doesn't pay for the entire event. But there's an *awful* lot of cost hidden in this bit:

I mean, with any big event, I guess the city hosting it does always have to pay something - for extra policing and such - but the main event is paid for by, well, the TV licence fee, the ads you watch on ITV and S4C, the ads Germans and Italians are watching and so forth.

Leeds has hosted major televised events before (TDF in 2014) but the city was in way better shape back then. The media city that had to be built was immense but was immediately destroyed and built over. The security that was needed was insane, the disruption to the town was unreal...

Hey, who knows, maybe the host city gets a grant of some kind to make improvements, but as it stands at the moment Leeds is in no shape to host anything.

[KlaxonCow]

Hey, who knows, maybe the host city gets a grant

From the Brexiteer Tories? To "level up" a Northern city? To host a European event?

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Fat chance, basically.