Politics Thread!

[merman]

that goes against her pledge at PMQs 48 hours earlier that there would be NO spending cuts

That's not quite what she said. There would be no cuts in spending. Several people have pointed out since that 'spending' might be interpreted to include the £60m energy cost support.

She then repeatedly said she was keeping the energy price guarantee.

Jeremy Hunt in his round of interviews today has said there WILL be spending cuts AND tax increases. The 1p cut in basic rate of tax is also under threat. Again, that’s totally against the platform Truss stood for the leadership on. Indeed, the political pundits are saying Tories are either backing a Sunak/Morduant takeover or Hunt stepping up to be PM. He’s calling the shots now as Chancellor because the markets don’t want Trussonomics.

[Rhythm]

Cuts in public spending - confirmed
Scrapping of tax rate cuts - confirmed
Announcement that the 2 year energy price guarantee will only be 6 months - confirmed

In a way it feels good to be back in a world where the party is going to shaft you, but at least they're being honest about it

[merman]

What a shambles. Truss is not in control, this is all a panic measure to calm the markets so the cost of Government borrowing goes down.

But everyone else’s mortgage will go up. Inflation will go up. Growth will go down, not up. And people on pensions and benefits will be even worse off.

[snaff]

Liz Truss is a ghastly warmonger. I hope she's gone soon.

[KlaxonCow]

I've never seen the House of Commons so openly hostile as it was today (and if you regularly watch the coverage of the House of Commons, then you know that's a bold statement to make).

Penny Mordaunt was brought in to provide the excuses, before Jeremy Hunt was due to give his speech.

And every MP stood up, asking "where's Liz Truss?". Why the hell isn't she here?

Mordaunt attempted to deflect these by pleading that there were good genuine reasons why Truss wasn't there... but then refused to provide any details.

Every MP asked, and Mordaunt gave the same "there are good reasons why she's not here" but refused to detail what those reasons were. And MPs were openly and loudly shouting "and what are those reasons?". No response.

It was like that Paxman interview, repeating the same question over and over - refusing to change the subject - until we actually get a decent answer out of her.

Truss did eventually show up. But at the same time as Jeremy Hunt, so she just sat there and let her chancellor do all the talking.

What were these "genuine good reasons"? No idea. They never answered the question.

[tufty]

Genuinely good reasons?

- Afraid of being caught in a crossfire, given that the calls for her resignation are coming from both sides of the aisle
- Asking Jeremy what she should do
- Trying to work out how to press the nuclear button without anyone noticing
- Simply doesn't care

Those ones sprang to mind instantly.

[Rhythm]

Apparently she was in with Graham Brady when the Urgent Question was up. They're saying it was for a pre-planned meeting rather than her being raked across the coals but TBH any meeting with him at the moment can't be a good one. She looked shaken when she finally sat down in the commons - lots of staring into space and rapid eye blinking.

[Felonious Feline]

To try and balance the views (a little...)

• - I thought Penny Mordaunt did an admirable job despite being thrown to the lions. Came across as confident and gave as good as she got. Ultimately, she was told not to give a reason - so she was in an impossible situation.
  
  - Jeremy Hunt has gravitas and appears to know what he's doing. The addition of the city-based committee will do a great deal to calm the markets.
  
  - A lot of people forget the energy support package will actually help reduce inflation - around 2.5 percentage points.
  
  - The inflation / wage rise cycle is the most dangerous in the current scenario. We need to calm down the rises to give inflation the chance to stabilise (and come down). The more double-digit rises we give the more impact it has. It's a vicious circle.
  
  - The lowest paid are the most affected so the statement "any decisions will be made through the prism of the lowest paid" is important - if they do address this directly it will go a long way to sorting the situation.

Whilst Truss is a bit of a lame duck, it's better short-term to keep her in position whilst the grown-ups sort the mess out. The country cannot afford another 6-week leadership cycle where nothing is done. The best route at the moment is to get through the winter and have a review in the New Year. Then either of the options raised (new leader, general election) are viable.

[KlaxonCow]

I thought Penny Mordaunt did an admirable job despite being thrown to the lions. Came across as confident and gave as good as she got. Ultimately, she was told not to give a reason - so she was in an impossible situation

I'll grant you that.

It was clearly not her fault, but just the mess of the situation itself and I also suspect she was just told to say that. But the plan didn't quite work, when every MP kept asking over and over.

I equally suspect that she wasn't going to be there at all initially, as Mordaunt's replies were "she'll be in the House tomorrow", as if that's when she thought Truss was going to re-appear. But I think, as MPs were not letting it go and it had really bad optics, they decided to send her in to silence the criticism (but on strict orders to say and do nothing).

So, yeah, it was not Mordaunt's personal fault or anything, but the collective "can't organise a piss-up in a brewery" of the Tory party in general.

[Felonious Feline]

So, yeah, it was not Mordaunt's personal fault or anything, but the collective "can't organise a piss-up in a brewery" of the Tory party in general.

I think it was exactly the ability of the Tories to organise piss-ups that got us into this situation in the first place!

[merman]

Don’t listen to them talking about a new start or a reset.

Even according to their own ministers, every member of Cabinet agreed with the disastrous Mini-Budget when it was presented to them. And they all ran around the TV and radio studios defending Truss and Kwarteng cutting bankers’ bonuses and corporation tax while they rest of us worry about putting the heating on and keeping a roof over our heads.

Now we have Chancellor Hunt telling us we have to get ready for “scary spendings cuts” as they look to save billions to avoid a black hole that is there thanks to THEIR mishandling of the economy. Even with the energy price crisis, other countries are coping with inflation without cutting Government spending.

Austerity 2.0 with no mandate from the electorate. Get them out.

[Felonious Feline]

Austerity 2.0 with no mandate from the electorate. Get them out.

They won a mandate from the electorate in December 2019. No one at that point knew about Covid, Ukraine or the consequences of them in terms of debt, price pressures or fuel scarcity/prices.

Whilst it's uncomfortable/difficult for us all we can't have a General Election whenever we disagree with the state of the economy, policy decisions, world events etc. If this would be the case, we'd probably end up with one every month...

A few examples - should we have had a general election because Blair went to war with Iraq which wasn't in any manifesto? Should we have had a general election because he opened the door to Eastern European migration in 2004 which wasn't in the manifesto? Or Major leaving the ERM in 1992? Or Major's Eurosceptic changes and views which changed from being pro-European in the early days of his premiership? Many people voted for Conservatives in 2010, but got a coalition government which mixed policies from both (eg fixed-term parliaments).

Whilst you could argue that those examples did not cause as strong feelings as the current situation, they were all things that weren't in any manifesto.

We have to accept that we won't always agree with a government and have the opportunity to vote them out every 5th year (at most) if we don't think they are doing a good job.

[tufty]

They won a mandate from the electorate in December 2019

… based on a specific set of promises. Main headlines include :

- Extra funding for the NHS, with 50,000 more nurses and 50 million more GP surgery appointments a year.
- Millions more invested every week in science, schools, apprenticeships and infrastructure while controlling debt.
- Reaching Net Zero by 2050 with investment in clean energy solutions and green infrastructure to reduce carbon emissions and pollution.

"Supporting our police. Increasing funding for our schools. Building new hospitals."
"an extra £14 billion in funding for schools. "
", we will invest £100 billion in additional infrastructure spending – on roads, rail and other responsible, productive investment which will repair and refurbish the fabric of our country and generate greater growth in the long run. "
" investing almost £2 billion to upgrade the entire further education college estate. "

… and so on, and so on, and so on.

What we're looking at is more, and painful (but not for the Tories) cuts to the NHS, education, and what little infrastructure remains in government hands.

Yes, COVID has been a major issue, and Ukraine also. But other governments are not using those issues as a reason to further ruin their respective countries. The absolute massive issue that is crushing the UK is not COVID, nor Ukraine, but something straight out Tufton Street via Conservative Party HQ. The Conservative government elected in 2019 was damaging enough, but now the lunatics are truly running the asylum. When Jeremy Hunt, the most disastrous Health Secretary ever*, is seeming reasonable and capable in a role he has zero experience or ability to handle, we're truly fucked.

* And dont forget, Enoch Powell held the role

[KlaxonCow]

I think it was exactly the ability of the Tories to organise piss-ups that got us into this situation in the first place!

Touché!

[Felonious Feline]

reasonable arguments

Ultimately every government makes promises and fails to keep them. We then get a change, things improve for a while, go downhill, we make a change etc. etc.

Usually when things get this bad there’s someone waiting in the wings to replace the incumbent. But this time there isn’t a coherent replacement. Starmer should be making hay right now, but keeps failing to strike the right note. Who is another strong MP in the Labour party that could lead them? There’s no Blair type, and god help us if Sadiq Kahn moves to come back. In years gone by someone like Chuka Umunna would’ve been a good bet…