Politics Thread!

[tufty]

Sure, but it's rare that the "things getting worse" goes this far. The tories got lucky with COVID, it came at a time when the rapid unravelling of their policies and the damage caused by Brexit could be conveniently shoved under the rug and / or blamed on something else, as well as providing a plausible reason to quietly drop all those pesky promises. Sorry chaps, can't do that, global crisis and all that, ever so sorry. Double whammy with Ukraine, another global crisis and a wartime Prime minister is always popular. Look, lads, it's with heavy heart that we say this, but we're going to have to sell the NHS to our American friends so we can keep supplying you with electricity over the winter. Bummer, I know, but there it is. Russians, eh?

They could even have got away with it all if it weren't for the fat oaf and his buddies partying it up and then lying about it. It was quite clear that Johnson and his mates were simply taking the piss, when he was replaced with Trussbot 1.0, who simply threw away any artifice about what the Tories have been doing to the country since 1978, instead going all in "trebles all round" mode, even people like my parents, who were still supporting Boris as his arse was bouncing off the pavement outside N° 10, were shocked. Literally the only person I know who's still singing the Truss/Kwateng line is my old school friend and ex facebook friend I mentioned earlier.

IR35 back to it’s crazy stranglehold. Excessive taxation to penalise working hard, taking risks and being innovative.
But barely lip service to having a proper look at the money pit we call “Public Sector”… And no doubt the hand culture is now back on the agenda and set to flourish.
He’s only been in the job 5 mins ffs Nice one Hunt…

And yeah, Starmer is uninspiring. I can't stand the man, or the wishy-washy quarter-of-a-pint-of-socialism-watered-down-with-piss he stands for. I'm not sure, long term, that he will be any better for the country than simply letting the Conservatives finish selling it all off now. But tactically, he actually doesn't need to do anything much at the moment. When your enemies are pouring petrol over themselves and handing round the matches, all that's actually required is to sit back and warm your toes. Latest polling has Labour 30+ points ahead of the Conservatives, and some polls would, taking FPTP into the account, place the conservatives as merely the 4th largest party, behind Labour, the LibDems and the SNP. If Starmer really opened up, it would give the Mail and the likes a reason to pour hate on Labour and take the heat off the Conservatives.

Not that polling matters much now, unless Labour can somehow force an election right now that lead will get pissed and whittled away before election time. The conservatives need to get truss out of harm's way as fast as possible, and have someone half-way credible up front, calming everything down and avoiding making them any more hated. No more austerity, no more tax cuts for the rich, they need to go full on caring conservatism (sic). Basically take what Starmer is promising and run with that, maybe chuck in a little bit of institutional racism for old times' sake and to keep the gammons on board.

[tufty]

I'd also add that although Starmer isn't inspiring, maybe what the country really needs is a PM who is "merely" competent.

[zip accident]

The sad thing is the rich aren't rich enough that taxing them will raise much revenue, the taxes have to hit the moderately well off too.

[KlaxonCow]

We have to accept that we won't always agree with a government

Of course.

But at what point has that ever meant we're prohibited from criticising them?

This is a weird trend that needs to be quashed, as we also got this with Brexit.

"It's the will of the people", they say.

Well, firstly, that's very debatable, in that Leave only barely scraped its arse over the majority line, in a referendum where many people were not arsed to vote. So calling it "the Will of the People" is very much over-selling this.

But, secondly, okay, by the rules of democratic voting, it was a win. And I entirely accepted that this meant Brexit was going to happen.

Yet at no point did that in any way mean I couldn't call "the People" fucking idiots for voting for the worse option. It doesn't prohibit me - or any other commentator - from pointing out that nowhere in the campaign or vote was leaving the single market or the customs union specified, and that shit was added on after the fact.

I can continue to complain that they lied on the side of the bus. Because they absolutely lied on the side of the bus.

There's this weird thing - hanging in the air - since Brexit, but being echoed here, as if accepting that this is how democracy works, means that you're legally obliged to like it. That you must remain silent, smile sweetly and never complain.

I accept the demonstrable fact that they won the election and, therefore, are legitimately in power.

But, beyond that, I'm not required to fucking accept anything else. I don't have to like them. I don't have to disguise that I don't like them. I don't have to pretend I'm okay with Brexit, when I'm really not okay with Brexit. The fact they won an election - back when no-one had a clue what was in store - doesn't not mean I'm not allowed to mock the shit out of Boris or Truss.

Indeed, it is a prerequisite of a healthy functioning democracy that people are allowed to protest - "to seek redress of grievance", as the Yanks phrased it - and, like, it totally works both ways, so the Brexiteers were totally allowed to canvas their opinions on leaving the EU as much as they liked, while we were members of that for 40 years.

They were not meekly silent on the subject. And neither am I, now that the tide has turned. And neither should anyone ever be, in whatever direction the various votes go.

If you think it's shit, then you tell people that you think it's shit. Tell them why. Maybe, upon reflection, they'll agree with you and, thus, the vote changes at the next election. The opposition is perfectly allowed to try to convince people that they're right and win their vote.

It's fundamentally oxymoronic to attempt to wield democracy as a club to silence people. That's, like, totally arse backwards to what democracy is.

It's just not democracy at all, if you're meant to just be silently "accepting" of the world very clearly turning to shit around your ears, because today's temporary dictator says so (using "dictator" in its original Roman form there).

And, please, if you disagree with me, then furiously protest your point. That's the whole point. That's how it's actually supposed to work.


"As I would not be a slave, so I shall not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of that difference, is no democracy"
- Abraham Lincoln

[venusian]

Very much enjoying Evette Cooper putting the boot in today.

But Labour seems to be so little of anything, it's easy to imagine the Conservatives engineer a little uptick for the next election and squeezing out another victory from FTTP. The LibDems and Labour are both still Tories, but slightly less evil.

Surely one day historian will look back and struggle to explain how the rich man in his castle wasn't knocked into next week by the poor men at his gate.

[Felonious Feline]

And, please, if you disagree with me, then furiously protest your point. That's the whole point. That's how it's actually supposed to work.

100% agree.

I'm just in "be careful of what you wish for" camp - yes, we should have a better government. Yes, the current situation is awful/disgusting/evil/incompetent (delete as you see fit), but what's the alternative?

As Venusian said, "Labour seems to be so little of anything". Lib Dems will never get to power under the FPTP. If the Scottish Nationalists get their way, then it will ultimately strengthen the Tories as this was a traditional Labour gain during General Elections (not in the recent times, in fact the Conservatives currently have 6 MPs to Labour's 1).

We're getting perilously close to having a democracy similar to the USA, where self-interest is more important than sound government... (just to kick another hornet's nest!).

[Felonious Feline]

Dear oh dear…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-63309400

[Rhythm]

Dear oh dear…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-63309400

Jumping ship using a small "technical error" as the excuse, then laying into the PM in the resignation letter. Impressive, but I don't remember her being such a stickler for the rules when Partygate was going on.

[Felonious Feline]

One of the rumours is that Truss wants to agree a massive liberalisation of immigration from India to get a trade deal signed. Braverman wants to restrict immigration, which made her popular “up north”… that, or jumping before the ship sinks.

[F-ZeroOne]

Well, shes out.

[Deckard]

But she was the first choice ! So what do we get now ?

[F-ZeroOne]

...well, the last thing left in Pandoras Box was Hope?

[KlaxonCow]

But she was the first choice !

[Felonious Feline]

Sunak 8/11
Mordaunt 9/4
BoJo 4/1
Wallace 16/1

Sunak not popular in north, Mordaunt & Wallace no experience…

I think they need to do this like electing a new pope. Lock them in a room until only 1 comes out.

[F-ZeroOne]

But she was the first choice !

You were supposed to bring balance to The Economy, not destroy it!