Politics Thread!

[Rhythm]

When the home secretary gets to stand up in Parliament and call the influx of refugees and asylum seekers "an invasion" then things have really reached a dark place.

Labour killed off their push to the extreme left - the Tories didn't get so lucky. We're basically being governed by a rebadged UKIP

[PFVA]

Overseas:

160 roads blocked in Brazil by truck drivers that support Bolsonaro, who still hasn't conceded victory to Lula.


Note: I have to admit that a difference of only 2 million in a country of 220+ million is not that much but that's how things work.

[tufty]

Labour killed off their push to the extreme left

Back in the mid '80s. It's been a while.

Oh, you were talking about Corbyn.

Corbyn represent[s|ed] what would have been referred to as "traditional Labour values". He's an actual socialist, and far closer to Wislon than the "loony left" of the clash with Thatcherism. He's probably less left wing than Clement Atlee. After all, the 2017 manifesto was very much social democrat, not hard line communist, no matter what the Fail says. That you are equating him with the "extreme left" shows how far to the right the political spectrum has swung, and how deeply the right wing press' attacks on Labour in general (and Corbyn in particular) have ingrained themselves in the public psyche.

[Rhythm]

Labour killed off their push to the extreme left

Back in the mid '80s. It's been a while.

Oh, you were talking about Corbyn.

Corbyn represent[s|ed] what would have been referred to as "traditional Labour values". He's an actual socialist, and far closer to Wislon than the "loony left" of the clash with Thatcherism. He's probably less left wing than Clement Atlee. After all, the 2017 manifesto was very much social democrat, not hard line communist, no matter what the Fail says. That you are equating him with the "extreme left" shows how far to the right the political spectrum has swung, and how deeply the right wing press' attacks on Labour in general (and Corbyn in particular) have ingrained themselves in the public psyche.

Or I was being a tad hyperbolic to more simply illustrate a point. I hate the fact that Corbyn got so stitched up. Him leading Labour was the first time I voted for Labour. Compared to where Labour have been during my lifetime he really was an "extreme" jump to the left.

But where Momentum vs Labour got headlines for days, barely anybody is talking about the fact that the ERG have taken over the Tories. It's noted and commented upon, but as a sideline piece

[Dio]

Corbyn's problem wasn't that he was some kind of ultra-radical. It was an inability to focus on the big picture socalism that matters rather than crazy crusades and not being able to organise a piss-up in a brewery.

That's what separates him from Wilson and Attlee, who were cunning politicians who understood that the big things are important and you should leave off the silly irrelevancies until you've sorted those out.

[tufty]

But where Momentum vs Labour got headlines for days, barely anybody is talking about the fact that the ERG have taken over the Tories. It's noted and commented upon, but as a sideline piece :-(

It's old news as well, though, isn't it? It's been 6 years where the ERG has been very obviously holding the reins, but they've been very influential since their formation in '93. Even that was only the follow on from the Bruges group formed in the late '80s. The anti european lot basically grabbed the reins of power when Hague and the other "bastards" toppled Major. That was 1997. The tories have been broadly euroskeptic since then, overtly courting the anti europe vote in an attempt to keep them in the party and not in the various extreme right wing splinter parties, with a brief hiatus under the pigfucker, who was pro european but still courting the skeptics.

Corbyn's problem wasn't that he was some kind of ultra-radical. It was an inability to focus on the big picture socalism that matters rather than crazy crusades and not being able to organise a piss-up in a brewery.

Yeah, that. He was a hopeless old 1970s leftie, and far too willing to nail his colours to a cause. Plus he had the entirety of the press, and half of the labour party machine, gunning for him. That didn't make life easy.

[Dio]

Sure (oh, how many of those 70s lefties I met when my dad ran the local Labour party and again at university) but again, there were good reasons for the latter part too, because he wasn't ever likely to be good enough to win.

I can just about accept the argument it was worth having a go once despite the obvious misgivings, but it was a massive missed opportunity to beat May, and totally obvious that if he couldn't do that he wasn't ever going to get Labour over the line.

[merman]

Oh, so when the Tories accused Corbyn of dragging the country back to the 1970s...

... it’s actually the Tories that have turned it into a rerun of 1973, with electricity blackouts, empty supermarket shelves and a devalued currency - which all happened under Tory rule. Not to mention the backslide into racism and child poverty.

[KlaxonCow]

Swedemason's Halloween offering this year:

[tufty]

Worth a listen. Not that we can do anything about it, nor that anything much is liable to stop it…

[PFVA]

Ow no!
That man that is always angry and shouting and lived in the White House for a while, was back in my TV screen as soon as I turned it on at breakfast.

[gilesgoat]

I was wondering ... "What's going on in Syria ?" you don't hear a single word any more about it ?

... is everybody dead Dave ???

.. there was a time were it was day by day news ... what happened there since then ???

[F-ZeroOne]

The short answer, for Europe at least, is a war rather closer to home.

[DutchLlama]

The short answer, for Europe at least, is a war rather closer to home.

Isn’t Ukraine close enough?

Maybe we can get the Germans to invade some other countries again. Third time’s a charm, right?

[PFVA]

Just to mention German just signed the deal to import natural gas fm Qatar, and apparently other EU countries will do the
same. There is all this fuss about human rights specially LGBT and women's, the situation of the migrant workers which represent 8 out of 10 of the people there, but then Europe buys more fm them assuring they'll continue to be a very rich Emirate.