Pink Floyd ....

[KlaxonCow]

Oh, it's worse than that.

Roger Waters has completely redone Dark Side of the Moon, in an attempt to divorce what he believes are "his" songs from Gilmour and the others.

https://guitar.com/news/music-news/roge ... -the-moon/

On the topic of his estranged former bandmates, Waters proclaimed that the album was his to do with as he saw fit, telling the interviewer, “I wrote The Dark Side of the Moon. Let’s get rid of all this ‘we’ crap! Of course we were a band, there were four of us, we all contributed – but it’s my project and I wrote it. So… blah!”
[...]
It was also reported that the instrumental tracks of Dark Side Of The Moon now have Waters vocalising over them, with On The Run receiving a spoken word poem that reads: “It was a revelation, almost Patmosian whatever that means… a fight with evil, in this case an apparently all-powerful hooded and cloaked figure… it brooked no rebuttal.”

While I do consider Roger Waters to be the greatest lyricist around, the thought of him just talking over the bits where Gilmour's guitar ought to be... he's just a miserable grumpy old man these days, isn't he?

[tufty]

While I do consider Roger Waters to be the greatest lyricist around

Thats over egging the pudding a little, I'd say. He's good, but "the greatest"? It's subjective, I know, but I can think of a good few lyricists whose work I don't even like who could at least equally well lay claim to that title.

he's just a miserable grumpy old man these days, isn't he?

He always was. He was already a miserable grumpy old cunt when he was being interviewed in the early 70s. Not that there's anything particularly wrong with that, it's just that these days there's no "we" only "me". He's (maybe not so) slowly disappearing up his own arsehole.

[KlaxonCow]

It's subjective, I know, but I can think of a good few lyricists whose work I don't even like who could at least equally well lay claim to that title.

It is subjective, of course.

I think it's just that I like his style. As his lyrics are simple, conversational and he doesn't make it overtly flowery, but it's proper emotion-pulling poetry.

For example, "All Along the Watchtower" is good... but, ah, it's trying too hard. Rings a bit false.

But Waters lyrics just never have that feeling for me.

And it really stands out, I'm afraid, in the post-Waters Pink Floyd that the lyric quality drops like a rock. Although, I do like "High Hopes" (though it does suffer a bit from "look at me, aren't I being clever?" in places, but there is a passion in the last song of the last (real) Pink Floyd album that they are wishing everyone a sincere "goodbye" - it's been denied since, as they did more, but I feel like it was meant to be the full stop on the end of the sentence, and its sentiments are exactly that, looking back at a life with nostalgia and regret), and "Take It Back" (just for the lyrical switcheroo from "she could take it back" to "she WILL take it back, one day" and the general disguising of who "she" is - and that song is just, I feel, the strongest post-Waters track that could stand with the classics, without caveats. Though it's generally underrated, I feel. But maybe I'm biased, as it's basically an environmental protest song, so right up my alley).

I think I'm just a fan of "man of the people" down-to-earth conversational poetry, without any pretensions. Waters just does that brilliantly. So, sure, there are more "clever" lyricists, but I prefer a genuine lyricist to a "look at me, I'm clever" lyricist.

But that's just me. Mileages may, of course, vary wildly.

[Little stoned kiwi]

I like their music for the music, which on a musical level can be singing.
The lyrics are an egotistical wankfest that have gotten in the way since the 70s.

[KlaxonCow]

Fair enough. Not all lyrics speak to all people.

But sentiments in "Time" and "Wish You Were Here", the bittersweet "Shine On You Crazy Diamond", and the whole narrative of "The Wall" speaks to me, and feels like genuine sentiment, born from experience, without being sentimental in a flowery way.


But, equally, I think Shaun Ryder has moments of lyrical genius. So, you know, what do I know, eh?

Neil Armstrong
Astronaut
He had balls bigger than King Kong!

First big suit on the moon
And he's off to play golf!
Hole-in-one!

[KlaxonCow]

This is an interesting one.

A newspaper - El Pais - published an article about Roger Waters re-recording Dark Side of the Moon and features an un-sourced implied criticism of Gilmour's "horrible guitar solos" - the quotation being from the newspaper, though there's no attribution and just the implication that Roger said it - and Waters has taken to Twitter to defend Gilmour's guitar prowess:

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/roger-w ... tar-solos/

Roger Waters has defended David Gilmour's guitar solos, taking to Twitter to express his frustration over a recent article that implied his distaste for his former Pink Floyd bandmate's work.

"It's the usual, shit-stirring, ill-informed nonsense," Waters wrote in a statement posted in a Tweet. "However, there is, in the article, something upon which I need to set the record straight."
[...]
"I love Dave's guitar solos on [The Dark Side of the Moon], both of them, and on [Wish You Were Here] and on Animals and on The Wall and on The Final Cut. In my, albeit biased view, Dave's solos on those albums constitute a collection of some of the very best guitar solos in the history of rock and roll. So, Stuart Maconie, you little prick, next time, please check your copy with the subjects of your grubby little piece, before you go to print. Love R."

[tufty]

So, sure, there are more "clever" lyricists, but I prefer a genuine lyricist to a "look at me, I'm clever" lyricist.

I dunno, man. While I find post-Waters Floyd immensely drab, the post-Floyd Waters I've heard came across as contrived, facile toss with none of his earlier edge. Everyone lost in the exchange. That said, I haven't heard anything he's done since Amused to Death (I assume he has), so maybe he just had a 3 album wilderness period.

As far as "man of the people" songwriters go, I'd far rather Elvis Costello or Billy Bragg. Or Springsteen, although I can't stand his actual music.

But, y'know, tastes are like arseholes...

[KlaxonCow]

the post-Floyd Waters I've heard came across as contrived, facile toss with none of his earlier edge.

Okay, I'll grant you that.

As I kind of ignore that post-Floyd Waters exists, so I'm only judging this on his Pink Floyd canon. Like, you gave up at "Amused to Death", but I gave up immediately when he left Floyd in the first place.


And, actually, I'll give you Springsteen. Met "Born to Run" through Frankie Goes To Hollywood's cover, but it does have that lyrical punch and sincerity.

One of my favourite Springsteen things is how he took that "sincerity" thing to a whole new level with this music video, where he actually eschews editing and sings the track live, exactly so we can hear "the Streets of Philadelphia" in the background:



(I mean, it's all still show biz. For a movie. So I don't doubt that the dog barks have been edited in to the right places and there were many selective takes to get it right and such. But it's the feel. The ambience. The directorial balls to not precisely control the soundscape of a music video. I wish more music videos would have those balls to do this.)


Basically, I think the underlying point is that, for me, the one "sin" I can't abide - in anyone, in any context - is a lack of sincerity. As long as we're "fair dealing" here, I'll pretty much tolerate anything, as long as it's true and real.

I whole-heartedly agree with David Mitchell's observation of a miserable ticket conductor on a train: Of course he's miserable, as it's a shit job. And the last thing I'd wish upon him is the torture of making him smile and say "have a nice day", if he's really not feeling it. As Mitchell says, it's correct - and comforting for it - that someone grinding out a miserable income like that isn't the life of the party. Of course they wouldn't be. And if made to act otherwise - by company policy or someone telling them to "cheer up, mate" - then, you know, stop torturing the poor bugger, please.

As Sting had it: "that's my soul up there".

[WiteWulf]

I mostly struggled with post-Final Cut Floyd, as noted by others, it lacks the edge of earlier material, and Samson’s lyrics are a far cry from Waters’s.

That said, if you gave up on Waters’s solo material you’re missing out on one of the greatest albums Floyd never wrote. “Is This The The Life We Really Want?” is the best thing he’s written in decades, feeling like it could have rolled off the line straight after Animals to my ear. It has the acerbic vocals, with the familiar topics, of his solo material but has a much more solid musical backing to it than anything else he’s done (disclaimer: I’m not a fan of Clapton or Cooder).

On the topic of his re-recording of DSotM, don’t fear it. I saw him do a live performance of it in Hyde Park (with Nick on drums) in 2006; the arrangements were notably different then and I really enjoyed it.

But on top of all that, I won’t see him live again. He’s ideologically and politically completely off the rails these days. It’s impossible for me to separate the art from the artist anymore. I’m just glad I got to see him do The Wall again.

[KlaxonCow]

and Samson’s lyrics are a far cry from Waters’s.

I think this might also colour my opinions.

In that the talent juxtaposition between Waters and Samson is so stark - such a gaping chasm - that, you know, "a bang sounds louder after silence, and silence sounds deafening after a bang".

Some of the post-Waters Floyd lyrics are almost embarrassing. And there's far too much of the "look, ma, ain't I being so profound?" flowery meaningless insincerity that I don't like in there.

In fairness, it's probably not so bad, if I compared to the average pop and rock lyrics. But, you know, it's the act that's trying to follow Waters, so it can only disappoint, in that context, and just feels even worse for it.

[tufty]

On the topic of his re-recording of DSotM, don’t fear it.

I don't fear it, I just know it will be shit. Like Iggy's remastering of Raw Power.

It's all this, init:

[WiteWulf]

Meh, don't get old guys that have spent their working lives around incredibly loud PA systems do any sort of mastering. Look at the trash that Bob Rock puts out these days. They're all deaf, and their mixing/mastering work reflects that.

[Deckard]

Older people dont generally do their best work old so why play with stuff you did when you were young and better ? (With better hearing too)

[zip accident]

Meh, don't get old guys that have spent their working lives around incredibly loud PA systems do any sort of mastering. Look at the trash that Bob Rock puts out these days. They're all deaf, and their mixing/mastering work reflects that.

Could be worse. The abomination that is the "remastered" Santana's Abraxis (hopefully only on CD) is what comes of letting a guitar hater near a guitar masterpiece.

[KlaxonCow]

I don't know. Being half-deaf probably helps you win "the Loudness Wars", as you're already cranking way too loud just to hear it in the first place.

Nothing has had any dynamic range since the 2000s anyway. It's all got to be cranked to full, all the time, for the radio play, to compete with the overly loud advertising.

"In the Kingdom of the Deaf, the half-deaf grumpy bastard is King".