Politics Thread!

[PFVA]

I tend to agree that is not all about his daughter even though that is influencing him too.

He is working heavily in the reduction of government, and privatisation of almost everything.

That was very popular in the US Universities during the Reagan and George Bush (the father) Administration's. That generation is now at an age that can act on it. Elon is part of that group.Their ideas have been growing in popularity thru the years.

I don't like that thinking. I agree that there is a lot corruption in the government and lots of people doing nothing but it's not privatising that is going to solve the problem. Yes, there is a lot of money to be made specially in terms of the stock market but certain services should not exist for profit, the medical system is one of them.

[zip accident]

Say what? A message to his daughter? Bollocks.

Our opinions differ.

Sheriff John Brown always hated me, for what I don't know.

In my father's case it was because at the age of two I had a headfit and blamed him for something that wasn't in reality his fault, when I told him I voted Labour one time in the whole of my life he went full on Tory -> Nazi in reaction when he'd previously been solid Liberal.

I tend to agree that is not all about his daughter even though that is influencing him too.

He is working heavily in the reduction of government, and privatisation of almost everything.

That was very popular in the US Universities during the Reagan and George Bush (the father) Administration's. That generation is now at an age that can act on it. Elon is part of that group.Their ideas have been growing in popularity thru the years.

I don't like that thinking. I agree that there is a lot corruption in the government and lots of people doing nothing but it's not privatising that is going to solve the problem. Yes, there is a lot of money to be made specially in terms of the stock market but certain services should not exist for profit, the medical system is one of them.

Elon went to school in South Africa, I'm sure as a successful capitalist he does dislike government, but I'm not sure his education is a big part of that, it may be, I don't know.

It is public information that his daughter has cut all ties and changed her name, citing disapproval of Elon as the reason. Given Elon's naming choices I wouldn't be surprised if all his kids changed their forenames on becoming adults, but the Surname is going a step further. It could be there was no actual row, and this is Elon saying "you thought I was a fascist when I was voting liberat? I'll show you fascist", but my guess is that there was an actual stand up and scream at each other row.

Just my 2p, but this is what I guess.

[tufty]

For Elon's nazi salute, it doesn't matter why he did it or what it was when he did it. Maybe he really did think he was "sending his heart out" to all those people he would despise in real life. But it doesn't matter. What matters is his behaviour afterwards. Because Elon, like Trump, can never, ever be wrong, can never, ever, have to apologise. The pair of them are emotional toddlers, the result of a life of such privilege and power that they don't have to deal with other people in anything other than abstract terms. If you or I were told "You know that thing you did live on television in front of an audience of millions worldwide? It looked quite a bit nazi", we'd be mortified, apologising until we were blue in the face. Elon - no, he's gonna be "edgy" and try to turn it into a joke. A nazi joke. You did nazi that coming. And so on.Why? Because he cannot ever be wrong, and because the trumpling audience *at worst* are gonna turn round and say "meh, nazi salute? Owns the libs, amirite?". At best, they're gonna be "yay he's one of us". The same way when Trump was found liable in the E. Jean Carroll case, his response was to say she was ugly and not his type, that it never happened.

So it doesn't matter what Elon meant by it at the time. Because of his response, it's a full on nazi salute now.

As for the extreme reaganomics, Elon's a grifter in the same way Trump is. Of course he's all for it. He'll be quids in, doesn't matter if the plebs starve in teh street as long as he has his bed made of billions to roll in

[KlaxonCow]

[Dio]

Criticizing people for doing 'nazi salutes' from photos are ridiculous. By that argument Freddie Mercury put out a dozen per Queen concert and Alan Shearer did one every time he scored a goal. You need a bit more actual Nazi in it than just raising an arm in the air.

That people go crazy about this sort of stuff is one of the reasons the right thinks all us lefties are pathetic wankers.

(Which is not to say tufty doesn't have a point, mind.)

[KlaxonCow]

Criticizing people for doing 'nazi salutes' from photos are ridiculous.

It's not a photo. It's a video.

Press play.

[tufty]

You need a bit more actual Nazi in it than just raising an arm in the air

Quite. Unfortunately, Elon has quite a lot of form in those stakes, too, and doesn't seem to have slowed down at all since his salute. Some of this is support by inaction, but disturbingly large amounts are by actual action. Random selection follows...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -tweet-adl
https://futurism.com/civil-rights-group ... usk-racist
https://fortune.com/europe/2024/01/05/e ... t-wilders/
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-med ... rcna151945
https://www.politico.eu/article/elon-mu ... -sentence/
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international ... 691_4.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-med ... rcna145020
https://www.cbc.ca/news/elon-musk-afd-1.7445483

And so on, and so on, and depressingly on and on and on...

[KlaxonCow]

Anyway, I feel it's you lot who're missing the point I was making.

Putin's narrative in Russia for his "special operation" is that there are "Nazis" in Ukraine, and the West is sponsoring "Nazis" in Ukraine.

And this is a good bogeyman for Putin to use, as the actual Nazis attacked Russia.

Indeed, 20 million Soviets lost their lives fighting the Nazis off. They paid a very heavy price.

Particularly because the D-Day plan was basically Stalin agreeing to run "distraction" to keep the Nazis occupied, while the Allies landed on the Western Front. The landings were possible, because Stalin was drawing most of the Nazis to the bitterly-fought Eastern Front.

I've always felt, regardless of the Cold War (and arguably because of it), Russia should still have been invited to our Remembrance Day services at Normandy. Whatever our political differences, on that day, for that reason, we suspend them and, in our grief, we are allies.

The Russian sacrifice was heavy, and we should have bowed our heads to their fallen. In that moment, fuck ideology. We're all human beings.

(And, as I suggest, if we'd done that then it would have helped thaw relations. Putin's KGB training might not have been so keen to brain-wash him into thinking we're all traitorous cunts.)

The point I was making was that - whether Elon really was making a Nazi salute or not, whether he does or doesn't sympathise with neo-Nazi causes, whether this child of Apartheid still clings to the racism he was born into (but, as tufty notes, it's not without an orgy of evidence to suggest so) - it only has to look like a Nazi salute to be used by Putin.

Putin can use this. "Look, fellow Russians, Elon's doing a Nazi salute. I told you all these Americans are Imperial Nazis". "Also, look at Trump, proposing the imperial conquest and ethnic cleansing of Gaza. I told you that they were Imperial Nazis - they plan to do the same to Mother Russia".

Like, it's handing Putin all his propaganda on a silver platter. He tells Russians that the West is supporting "Nazis" in Ukraine and then Elon and Trump are wandering about doing a cannily good impression of being the sort of people who would be supporting Ukrainian Nazis.

[KlaxonCow]

As I've said before, Elon and his son->daughter have presumably had a big falling out, probably in 2022, and that's who the message is too, it's a "fuck you sideways with a pineapple" to his now daughter. She isn't unfortunately going to come out as anything right of liberal (not that anyone sensible would), because Elon would be against whatever she is for. That's the main message, the "I'm with these guys" is pretty explicit, not dog whistling at all, but it's the "fuck you" (which arguably is being dog whistled) that's got the emotion behind it.

I touched on that earlier myself.

Though I don't know that the Nazi salute has anything to do with that directly. I'm not sure it's a message to his daughter in that way. But it is related.

I think it's more that the loss of his son - who he has declared to be "dead", so it has to be understood as being traumatic parental grief inside his own head - broke something in him.

He's actually quite traditionalist. He's talked about it. He doesn't believe that the human race has any over-population problem. He thinks we should all be having many more children (and he puts his money where his mouth is, as he's had 12 children).

He's lost a son (who is dead in his own mind) and his trans daughter is not going to have the sixty million grandchildren that he feels we're all obligated to have, to increase the population.

And he's the sort of person - from what he's said in interviews - where if it had been a daughter becoming a son, in the other direction, it would have been less traumatic. She's an affront to his masculinity (Vivian has said that when she sees her father, all Musk has ever done is attack her femininity - encouraging her to be more butch, be more manly, be more macho). The eldest son (Vivian is the oldest) is meant to inherit the father's estate and all that from a traditionalist viewpoint.

It's easy to laugh at his vow to "destroy the woke mind virus" because we don't think it's really a thing. But he believes it. He blames "neo-Marxists" with their "woke mind virus" for killing his son. He's repeated his vow to "kill the woke mind virus" numerous times.

It's silly. But he believes it. He believes that the "neo-Marxists" have created a "woke mind virus" to attack his traditionalist view of the Western world, and that they killed his son. To him, his son is dead and the "woke mind virus" did it.

Worse still, he agreed to it. He signed the forms.

Which is very important - Musk did not always think this way. Indeed, he runs an electric car company, so he was never a climate change denier. He started a space company to "backup the human race". When he started these ventures, he sat down and asked himself what the human race needed and then invested / built companies to fulfil those goals. He was idealistic and was not going for the profit - at the time he did these things, everyone though it was investment suicide.

This is trauma. His erratic behaviour is symptomatic of someone who's losing it. Because he's not eccentric, he's erratic - there is a subtle difference.

I think he's throwing in with every transphobe and anti-woke person he can find. Recruiting the neo-Nazis to his cause to destroy the woke mind virus.

He's openly vowed to destroy it, by hook or by crook, and I think he's being absolutely genuine in that. He'll sleep with neo-Nazis, with Trump, with every right-wing cunt he can find in Europe (the more anti-woke and Nazi, the better) to raise his army that will kill the woke mind virus.

It's silly and we can - and should - laugh at it. But I think that, in his own mind, this is all deadly serious and real, and when he vows to kill the woke mind virus by any means possible, as it "killed" his son, it's not a metaphor or anything. He really bloody well means it, and he's the richest git on the planet, so he has the means and influence to make it happen. One way or the other. He will have his revenge.

[PFVA]

Elon went to school in South Africa, I'm sure as a successful capitalist he does dislike government, but I'm not sure his education is a big part of that, it may be, I don't know.


Just my 2p, but this is what I guess.

Sorry,
he left South Africa at 18. He went to university first in Canada and then in the US. Besides Physics he studied Economy in the US in the early 90s. The dislike for government and public service was being heavily promoted since the 80s and was very popular. The idea was of replacing most of government with the private sector was in development too.

[zip accident]

For Elon's nazi salute, it doesn't matter why he did it or what it was when he did it. Maybe he really did think he was "sending his heart out" to all those people he would despise in real life. But it doesn't matter. What matters is his behaviour afterwards. Because Elon, like Trump, can never, ever be wrong, can never, ever, have to apologise. The pair of them are emotional toddlers, the result of a life of such privilege and power that they don't have to deal with other people in anything other than abstract terms. If you or I were told "You know that thing you did live on television in front of an audience of millions worldwide? It looked quite a bit nazi", we'd be mortified, apologising until we were blue in the face. Elon - no, he's gonna be "edgy" and try to turn it into a joke. A nazi joke. You did nazi that coming. And so on.Why? Because he cannot ever be wrong, and because the trumpling audience *at worst* are gonna turn round and say "meh, nazi salute? Owns the libs, amirite?". At best, they're gonna be "yay he's one of us". The same way when Trump was found liable in the E. Jean Carroll case, his response was to say she was ugly and not his type, that it never happened.

So it doesn't matter what Elon meant by it at the time. Because of his response, it's a full on nazi salute now.

As for the extreme reaganomics, Elon's a grifter in the same way Trump is. Of course he's all for it. He'll be quids in, doesn't matter if the plebs starve in teh street as long as he has his bed made of billions to roll in

I do not seriously dispute the direction of this post, I think it's over simplifying complticated people, but the direction is about right, I saw a photo of Elon with his right hand straight up palm outward, and that's the less formal version given by superiors to inferiors of the nazi salute, and he's grinning as it's a huge joke to him.

Elon went to school in South Africa, I'm sure as a successful capitalist he does dislike government, but I'm not sure his education is a big part of that, it may be, I don't know.


Just my 2p, but this is what I guess.

Sorry,
he left South Africa at 18. He went to university first in Canada and then in the US. Besides Physics he studied Economy in the US in the early 90s. The dislike for government and public service was being heavily promoted since the 80s and was very popular. The idea was of replacing most of government with the private sector was in development too.

The 2p was for my whole post, not the particular bit about the education, I sort of remembered he'd done some study in the USA after school, but not the details.

As I've said before, Elon and his son->daughter have presumably had a big falling out, probably in 2022, and that's who the message is too, it's a "fuck you sideways with a pineapple" to his now daughter. She isn't unfortunately going to come out as anything right of liberal (not that anyone sensible would), because Elon would be against whatever she is for. That's the main message, the "I'm with these guys" is pretty explicit, not dog whistling at all, but it's the "fuck you" (which arguably is being dog whistled) that's got the emotion behind it.

I touched on that earlier myself.

Though I don't know that the Nazi salute has anything to do with that directly. I'm not sure it's a message to his daughter in that way. But it is related.

I think it's more that the loss of his son - who he has declared to be "dead", so it has to be understood as being traumatic parental grief inside his own head - broke something in him.

He's actually quite traditionalist. He's talked about it. He doesn't believe that the human race has any over-population problem. He thinks we should all be having many more children (and he puts his money where his mouth is, as he's had 12 children).

He's lost a son (who is dead in his own mind) and his trans daughter is not going to have the sixty million grandchildren that he feels we're all obligated to have, to increase the population.

And he's the sort of person - from what he's said in interviews - where if it had been a daughter becoming a son, in the other direction, it would have been less traumatic. She's an affront to his masculinity (Vivian has said that when she sees her father, all Musk has ever done is attack her femininity - encouraging her to be more butch, be more manly, be more macho). The eldest son (Vivian is the oldest) is meant to inherit the father's estate and all that from a traditionalist viewpoint.

This is in my opinion mistaken. The trans thing is probably quite a big deal, and I think that so long as the new son was also going to be infertile he'd be just as upset about that (because "it's a wise child who knows who his father is.").

However, he has a living relative who he is calling dead. This is not something you do to someone you like, or even mildly dislike, this is for someone you hate, loathe and abhor: and it's mutual. I think perhaps the odds are as high as 25% that one of them will kill the other.

[tufty]

[I saw a photo of Elon with his right hand straight up palm outward, and that's the less formal version given by superiors to inferiors of the nazi salute, and he's grinning as it's a huge joke to him.

You saw a picture? Do you live under a fucking rock?

[zip accident]

[I saw a photo of Elon with his right hand straight up palm outward, and that's the less formal version given by superiors to inferiors of the nazi salute, and he's grinning as it's a huge joke to him.

You saw a picture? Do you live under a fucking rock?

After that, which I also saw.

[PFVA]

Illinois Governor JB Pritzker jokingly announced that the name of Lake Michigan had been changed to "Lake Illinois," poking fun at President Donald Trump's Gulf of America.

He is also annexing Green Bay for security reasons and has an important announcement about Mississipi River nxt week.



https://abc7chicago.com/post/governor-j ... /15885139/

Note. Trump's Justice Dept is suing Illinois over the immigration issue.

[F-ZeroOne]

I mean, I get its a light-hearted response but at least one Republican is now trying to introduce a bill to allow Trump to take over Greenland and rename it - I am not joking - "Red, White and Blue" Land.