Politics Thread!

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zip accident
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by zip accident »

KlaxonCow wrote:
zip accident wrote:I suspect there may be plans to limit global warming to the northern hemisphere. Use sulphurated fuels in the southern hemisphere to block the sun and cause massive cooling, which will raise antarctic Ice and keep the sea levels down, while making Canada, Siberia and Greenland green and pleasant lands. All the acid rain falls in the south, nobody important suffers.

They won't even object to the evacuation of pure scientists. though they will probably make technologists leaving as difficult as they can.
No, no. You misunderstand.

You have some scientific literacy, so you're doing the logical thing of thinking of a way to make this "plan" work.

But Trump's actual thinking is "I am a rich God King. I will pay for all the bad to go away and not affect me", as if this is actually possible. I mean, to the extent that you can pay your underlings to keep things away from you, sure. But you can't keep the laws of physics away from your door. Your door is made of the laws of physics. You are. This is an impossibility that he's requesting.

But he's a moron who's been rich all his existence. So he doesn't comprehend. With everything else, he's just paid for it to go away. There is no comprehension that you can't pay for the weather to go away.

As has been observed by others, Elon and Bezos are building spaceships, so they can go and live on another planet. They've given up on this planet, because it requires them to be less rich and more responsible to save it. So, in that calculus, fuck the planet, let the subhumans slowly die on it. I'm just buying myself a new one.
It's not about Trump, Putin, Bezos and Musk.

Tney have supporters, without whom this couldn't work. For Putin it's the traditional military, which is why the fighting in Ukraine has been (on the russian side) prisoners and mercenaries.
Again, you have some scientific literacy. You recognise that this is a ridiculous line of thought. You can't buy a new planet. You can't just "move to Mars", as if this is without immense problems and requires so much more science and technology that we've not enacted yet. And comes with drawbacks, because Mars is NOT Earth 2.0 - less gravity, less sunlight. It's not a one-for-one replacement, even if you terraformed it. In fact, it cannot hold onto an atmosphere without a magnetic field and I don't know that anyone knows how you could ever solve that one.
I've said before I like Venus better than Mars for terraforming, and living on the Moon and asteroids better than either.
But these people live in an existence where they throw money at things and, magically, it just happens. They think money is a magic spell that can do anything, because that's how it's behaved for them thus far in most things. Why can't I just buy a new planet or kill off all the poor? "I'm sorry, but I don't understand this 'no, that's not possible' words that you're speaking, as no-one's ever said those words to me before."

This is how folks with some scientific literacy realistically understand the situation:



But Elon wants to go to Mars as a "backup plan" for the human race.

Remember, the same Elon who was doing Nazi salutes and wants to fund the neo-Nazis in Germany. So if you're wondering who is going to be allowed on Elon's spaceship, there won't be any black people or Jews or gays, and the white women are only coming along because "baby factories" will be required, so we'd prefer them not to speak or have any ideas.
A minimal population for survival is about 100, maybe more. There's no way to get that many people to Mars with the farms they'd need within Elon's lifetime, let alone Trump's. The plan, whatever it is, is about living on Earth, or they couldn't have sold it to the mooks.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by KlaxonCow »

zip accident wrote:I've said before I like Venus better than Mars for terraforming, and living on the Moon and asteroids better than either.
We're in the minority. But it really is the better target, I agree.

Because though Venus is a hellhole - ironically, due to climate change, as it's crushing atmosphere (90 atmospheres of pressure) is mostly CO2, which makes it hotter on Venus than on Mercury, even though Mercury is the closest to the Sun - it's Earth-sized.

Venus's gravity is 8.8m/s^2 to Earth's 9.8m/s^2. Whereas Mars is only 3.7m/s^2, which is closer to the Moon (1.6m/s^2) than to Earth. A 7521 mile diameter to Earth's 7926 miles.

And, unlike Mars, she can hold an atmosphere. it doesn't have Earth's magnetic field. unfortunately, but it does have an induced magnetic field. It can repel the solar wind, where Mars absolutely can't.

The reason people don't even consider Venus is because, right now, she is a hell hole. Crushing atmosphere, as hot as it gets on any planet, perpetual storms and acid rain.

Like, we've sent probes to Venus and they barely last hours. Specially reinforced probes and we can't stop them from rapidly dying to the conditions there.

So, yeah, a manned mission to a planet where we can't even keep armoured robots alive for more than a few hours? No fucking chance. And that's why no-one considers Venus and plumps for Mars.

But if you can fix Venus's run away climate change, then she would settle down to being the closest planet to Earth we'll ever have, until we get warp drives and go interstellar.

But, yes, to return to Neil deGrasse Tyson's point, to "fix" Venus requires reversing run-away climate change. And if we can do that on Venus, then we can avoid it happening on Earth.


For me, though, it comes back to one simple statistic. The world has around 38 years of oil left. A few more decades natural gas, and around a century of coal.

Those are all "at current rates of usage", so expect the reality to be less than that. Because demand is going up. But also it doesn't take account of the natural "cascade" that will happen. When there is no more oil, than natural gas and coal will be leaned on more heavily. Once natural methane's dead, everything goes on the shoulders of coal. Like, it cannot be "at current rates of usage" because, as we lose one, we weigh down the others much more heavily.

Could more oil and gas fields be found? Yes. And they probably will be. But it's never going to be as much as we've already found. It's not going to make any significant dent in these basic facts.

As oil runs out, then gas runs out, then coal runs out, there's only one way that their prices can go - exponentially upwards to pricelessness. We'll all be, little by little, priced out of the market. Indeed, that's the only thing that'll actually help extend the remaining time to any reasonable extent. That we increasingly learn to live without it. And, of course, if we're doing that, then might as well learn to live without it forever.

This is a dead man walking. Fossil fuels are on their last legs. We cannot continue with them indefinitely, because they don't last indefinitely. There is a very definite finale for fossil fuels on the horizon right now.

Of course, I entirely get why the fossil fuel billionaires are going to keep going to the proverbial "last drop". Because there's still trillions of dollar down there. As the price inevitably rises exponentially, they get filthy rich. There's still a killing to be made in these final days.

But, for everyone else, it's time to give up on it. To transition away.

We need to leave what's left in the ground. Because it'll have a tremendous negative effect on climate change, and it's not worth it for, at best, less than 40 years of oil. Where a tank of fuel already costs you more than a battery recharge, and it'll only just exponentially worse economically.

One way or the other, we end up in the same place. We'll end up with renewables, because they'll be the only things left.

The clue is in the question, as a game show host once said. Renewables renew, non-renewables don't.

There's only a temporary illusion of choice. But there really isn't one. Some greedy cunts get rich on the slight delay to the inevitable, and climate change gets vastly worse. But it makes no difference to the overall outcome.

And if we start now, then we can avoid "the war for Greenland". Putin will increasingly have no funds to invade anyone else. Saudi will have to let its women work, as it's not in an economic position to have "kept women" anymore and it needs the taxes. We can stop our mostly disastrous interference in the Middle East. Renewables like solar and batteries have the means to put "the means of (energy) production" in the hands of working families, sneaking us out from under the thumbs of "Robber Baron" greedy tyrants, when each home can be, to some extent, its own island from the worst of their machinations.

Energy is at the root of it all. Free abundant energy in the hands of the people changes the script completely. It rewrites far more than simply your next electricity bill.

This is the insanity to me. On the one hand, climate destruction and economic collapse and then the fossil fuels betray us by running out anyway. On the other hand, a solar roof and you passively get energy for nothing. Over its lifetime, it pays for itself (many times over) so, in terms of "lifetime cost", they're less than free. It, little by little, collapses the root of all the world's tyrants' power over us. Better air to breathe, better water to drink. The recovery of nature.

The option you're being offered is paradise in comparison. Yet the instinct to stick with the status quo - the devil we know - is so immensely strong. But it will be our undoing unless we can learn to resist it. The status quo is collapsing, the world is turning to shit in front of our eyes. "The system" is going to catastrophically collapse, as it cannot be sustained. We have to switch to a new "system" or this train's going to smash into the buffers at a million miles an hour, and we end up in a Medieval "horse and cart" world once again.

Renewables are our only route out of this inevitable catastrophe (well, okay, there's also potentially nuclear fusion - but that's been "around the corner" for 70 years so far. Maybe it really is now genuinely around the corner, but we can't wait another 70 years. Renewables work now. We have no idea when or if nuclear fusion could be made viable as a solution. Go with renewables and if nuclear fusion does show up as our saviour, that's great, but we can't depend on it swooping in to save us, as it might never come in time).

Only catastrophe - as we're increasingly witnessing - is gained by delay. Eventually, there will be no choice anyway. We're not really playing of time, we're just making things worse for no reason, to avoid accepting the known inevitable conclusion that we'll end up here regardless.

These are the death throes of the old order. Religious nutjobs trying to reassert themselves, as they see the writing on the wall. Tyrants clinging to their last vestiges of power to remain relevant.

Don't get me wrong. Death throes are exactly when the cornered wolf is most deadly. They have nothing to lose, so go insane in their desperation.

But they are dying. Effectively already dead. This is just their final gasp of air - the ultimate freak out, in a vain attempt at survival of their broken old systems - and they will be deadly, but soon they will be dead.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by tufty »

In breaking news :

- Orange Shitler has invoked the Alien Enemies Act against Tren de Aragua, the first time the act has been used outside of a war
- Chuck Schumer and 9 other Senate Democrats voted /for/ the insane government funding bill, allowing Trump to act with total impunity
- Lots of anti trans stuff. For example...

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/89R/b ... 03817I.htm

Code: Select all

89R14268 AJZ-D
 
 	By: Oliverson	H.B. No. 3817
 
 
 	
A BILL TO BE ENTITLED
 	
AN ACT
 	relating to creating the criminal offense of gender identity fraud.
 	       BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:
 	       SECTION 1.  Subchapter D, Chapter 32, Penal Code, is amended
 	by adding Section 32.515 to read as follows:
 	       Sec. 32.515.  GENDER IDENTITY FRAUD. (a)  A person commits
 	an offense if the person knowingly makes a false or misleading
 	verbal or written statement to a governmental entity or the
 	person's employer by identifying the person's biological sex as the
 	opposite of the biological sex assigned to the person at birth.
 	       (b)  An offense under this section is a state jail felony.
 	       SECTION 2.  This Act takes effect September 1, 2025.
To make this clear - this would make "gender identity fraud" a state felony, meaning a mandatory 180 days to 2 years in jail (jail decided according to one's gender assigned at birth, obviously) and an up to $10,000 fine. It's not passed yet, but expect it to pass and the same to be proposed elsewhere soon.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by F-ZeroOne »

Texas is just a little insane when it comes to gender issues:

https://www.wonkette.com/p/texas-bill-w ... in-schools

My reaction to this is: has the person proposing this ever met a child? In the next thirty seconds I could already think of so many issues: is wearing a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle costume "furry"? What about any toy that makes animal sounds? Is copying "Paw Patrol" in the playground now an offence? What if a child sees a cow and goes "MOO!"? How many guns will they have pointed at them?

For a sliver of hope, The Cult of Trump is still incredibly bad at lawyers:

https://www.wonkette.com/p/oh-this-poor ... yer-trying
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Re: Politics Thread!

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F-ZeroOne wrote:Texas is just a little insane when it comes to gender issues:

https://www.wonkette.com/p/texas-bill-w ... in-schools

My reaction to this is: has the person proposing this ever met a child? In the next thirty seconds I could already think of so many issues: is wearing a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle costume "furry"? What about any toy that makes animal sounds? Is copying "Paw Patrol" in the playground now an offence? What if a child sees a cow and goes "MOO!"? How many guns will they have pointed at them?

For a sliver of hope, The Cult of Trump is still incredibly bad at lawyers:

https://www.wonkette.com/p/oh-this-poor ... yer-trying
Does that mean Disney and all their anthropomorphic ( I had to look up the spelling of this ) character are right out now?
This stupid crap will never end, as far as I'm concerned this is just the "right" getting back at the "left" for what the "right" considers to be left-wing nonsense. The pendulum will eventually swing back the other way.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by Kelloggs »

Swing, pendulum, swing. What I'm hearing from the US very much makes me think that the Left, when in power, have to think very hard about achieving their goals without the Right blocking them. When the Right are in power, though, they have to work out how to achieve their goals without the courts blocking them...

To anyone who says, oh, they're both the same, I would say no, they're really not. The lesser of two evils is still less evil - you should try it some time, because we need more Less Evil in the world. Also, I never heard a Dem stating a goal of "winding up the Cons" but "winding up the Libs" is apparently worthy of being an Amendment - once all the other ones are repealed first, of courser (or ignored, because that's less work).
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by Barney »

Ha, it's like Ben Elton's Stark, it really is.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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SuperMappy wrote:This stupid crap will never end, as far as I'm concerned this is just the "right" getting back at the "left" for what the "right" considers to be left-wing nonsense. The pendulum will eventually swing back the other way.
No, the pendulum will not swing back. Not without very significant change. It's not "getting back at the lefties", although that's part of what Trump getting voted into power was based on (the rest was just out and out lies).

The Trump administration's current actions are based on 2 things.

Firstly, cementing Trump's position in power (already pretty solid - he has both houses, the supreme court, and enough of the machinery of government is being / has been hacked out and replaced with people loyal to dear leader to stop them being able to put any sticks in the wheels). The extra-governmental part of this is being carried out via the politics of terror - as it stands, anyone who is of Venezuelan origin can be accused of being Tren de Aragua, snapped up by ICE, and shipped off to what's effectively a concentration camp in El Salvador with no chance of any defence. They just disappear. And there's nothing stopping that being expanded to anyone who "looks a bit hispanic". The same thing goes for the targetting of trans people. It's about making them uncitizens. Gender fraudsters. Throw them in jail, or maybe mental institutions. Who do we go after next, apart from the very obvious "leftists"? Possibly expanding the Alien Enemies Act to include anyone in a street gang. After all, it's gangs doing the drug dealing, and the drugs are coming from Mexico and Canada, so that's your "invasion". Caught on the street in possession of curly black hair and thick lips? "Gang member", poof, you're gone. No rights, no recourse to the law.

Secondly, he is deliberately triggering a recession. This is not good for the average American, but it's very good for the vulture capitalists that own Trump. Wait until everything has crashed, and then snap it all up at a low, low price. This also gives an opportunity to asset strip the US government, and move it all into private hands. Again, good for the vulture capitalists, but also good for cementing Trump's position of power as it allows him to sidestep the constitution. The government isn't allowed to discriminate against you because of your race, creed, or political beliefs, but a private company very much is (cf the gay wedding cake case way back when). The US Army Inc. will be allowed to do things the US Army as part of the government can't. Trump has seen what Putin was able to do with his private army, and he wants some of that.

It's not going to get better. It's not going to swing back. We're only 2 months in. He's already resurrected the Alien Enemies Act (and it seems it was signed about 24 hours before it was announced, giving ICE an extra day to round up and disappear people before anyone knew what was happening), I fully expect the Sedition Act or something of its ilk to be brought in prior to the midterms, and probably with the same "sign it in well before announcing it" gambit. Criticise the government? No vote for you, bucko! If the Democrats complain, declare them to be communist enemies of the state and ship 'em off. This is very much what the Nazis did, even down to outsourcing the concentration camps.

America is done.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by zip accident »

tufty wrote:
SuperMappy wrote:This stupid crap will never end, as far as I'm concerned this is just the "right" getting back at the "left" for what the "right" considers to be left-wing nonsense. The pendulum will eventually swing back the other way.
No, the pendulum will not swing back. Not without very significant change. It's not "getting back at the lefties", although that's part of what Trump getting voted into power was based on (the rest was just out and out lies).
I agree that nothing we've seen so far in the USA has ever been half so far left as Trump is looking to go right. It probably isn't going to end without a struggle, and it may last hundreds of years (the Roman Empire did). However, these things have always ended before, the Soviet Union did, the Tzars did, the French Monarchy did, the French Revolution did, the absolute British monarchy did, Oliver Cromwell's lot did, Pol Pot's did, arguably Mao's has mutated into something slightly different, North Korea is clearly still ongoing.
The Trump administration's current actions are based on 2 things.

Firstly, cementing Trump's position in power (already pretty solid - he has both houses, the supreme court, and enough of the machinery of government is being / has been hacked out and replaced with people loyal to dear leader to stop them being able to put any sticks in the wheels). The extra-governmental part of this is being carried out via the politics of terror - as it stands, anyone who is of Venezuelan origin can be accused of being Tren de Aragua, snapped up by ICE, and shipped off to what's effectively a concentration camp in El Salvador with no chance of any defence. They just disappear. And there's nothing stopping that being expanded to anyone who "looks a bit hispanic". The same thing goes for the targetting of trans people. It's about making them uncitizens. Gender fraudsters. Throw them in jail, or maybe mental institutions. Who do we go after next, apart from the very obvious "leftists"? Possibly expanding the Alien Enemies Act to include anyone in a street gang. After all, it's gangs doing the drug dealing, and the drugs are coming from Mexico and Canada, so that's your "invasion". Caught on the street in possession of curly black hair and thick lips? "Gang member", poof, you're gone. No rights, no recourse to the law.
This is looking very likely to me, but I've always been paranoid.
Secondly, he is deliberately triggering a recession. This is not good for the average American, but it's very good for the vulture capitalists that own Trump. Wait until everything has crashed, and then snap it all up at a low, low price. This also gives an opportunity to asset strip the US government, and move it all into private hands. Again, good for the vulture capitalists, but also good for cementing Trump's position of power as it allows him to sidestep the constitution. The government isn't allowed to discriminate against you because of your race, creed, or political beliefs, but a private company very much is (cf the gay wedding cake case way back when). The US Army Inc. will be allowed to do things the US Army as part of the government can't. Trump has seen what Putin was able to do with his private army, and he wants some of that.

It's not going to get better. It's not going to swing back. We're only 2 months in. He's already resurrected the Alien Enemies Act (and it seems it was signed about 24 hours before it was announced, giving ICE an extra day to round up and disappear people before anyone knew what was happening), I fully expect the Sedition Act or something of its ilk to be brought in prior to the midterms, and probably with the same "sign it in well before announcing it" gambit. Criticise the government? No vote for you, bucko! If the Democrats complain, declare them to be communist enemies of the state and ship 'em off. This is very much what the Nazis did, even down to outsourcing the concentration camps.
I don't see the hate, except for trans people.

There may be concentration camps, but I'm not foreseeing Treblinkas. I could be wrong about that especially in the longer term.
America is done.
In the worst case, for a while, yes. :cry:
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by KlaxonCow »

tufty wrote:America is done.
And it's already looking for "Lebensraum" - threatening Canada to become the 51st state, threatening to take over Greenland.

So I'm forced to ask the question again. What the fuck does the rest of the world do, if America goes full-blown Nazi?

America's defense budget, on its own, is bigger than the rest of the world combined.

I used to criticise this as absurd, to have a country that has never been invaded (well, the Japanese attacked a harbour in Hawaii and the British did try to go and get America back early on in their history - which is why the White House is white, as they had to repaint it), having a defence budget that's essentially "America vs. the rest of the planet". Particularly while they're the only modern democracy without universal healthcare as well. A totally fucked set of spending priorities.

But if America does go full-blown Nazi, then it already has had a "world domination" level of military spending and infrastructure for decades.

We've seen Putin in action in Ukraine. Russia's not a military superpower anymore. Its equipment is old and rusty ex-Soviet crap. Putin's "blitzkrieg" got stuck in the mud, had to retreat and, once taking the already pro-Russian parts of Ukraine, they've been in a stalemate for years now. No-one should, of course, ever test the hypothesis, but maintaining a nuclear arsenal is not cheap - they suffer radiation damage over time - and if their conventional military equipment is anything to go by, a lot of their stated nuclear arsenal probably doesn't actually work anymore.

If neo-Nazi Amerikkka starts seeking "Lebensraum" around the world - such as, ooh, turning Gaza into "the Riviera of the Middle East", somewhere for rich white Americans to go get a sun tan - then, right now, the world has no means to feasibly resist them.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by F-ZeroOne »

A judge did order the Venezuelan flights to be turned round en route, which didn't happen and its currently a bit unclear why (though simply not giving a fu... fudge would seem fairly likely).
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by tufty »

F-ZeroOne wrote:its currently a bit unclear why
It's a test of the opinion that the judicial branch cannot and should not interfere with the executive branch. After all, who is going to enforce it?

Here's an explanation of the doctrine from a right / extreme right viewpoint :

https://thenewamerican.com/us/politics/ ... supremacy/
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Re: Politics Thread!

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The first sentence of that article nearly made my cup of coffee explode from sheer radiated irony.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by tufty »

And Trump is now decreeing the presidential pardons issued by Biden are null and void. Jesus fucking wept.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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They're popping the champagne corks in the Kremlin.

"Agent Orange" was a wise asset to invest in, after all.
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