Politics Thread!

[PFVA]

The Federal can activate the National Guard in certain specific situations such as insurrection.
JFK activated the National Guard to protect the first black students entering the schools in some Southern states when segregation was ending.
In this case his order against the wishes of the governor and mayor is very questionable.
It's also a very populist decision and there is a lot of people who support it.
Note: European TVs seem to have noticed what's going on as of this morning.

[PFVA]

I just read this on CNN (USA CNN).

David Huerta, the president of the Service Employees International Union California, was arrested by federal agents after allegedly attempting to obstruct their access at a worksite, US Attorney for the Central District of California Bill Essayli said in a post on X.

SEIU is the biggest union in the US.

This is getting serious.

[KlaxonCow]

I thought the national Guard were commanded by state governments, not the executive. Certainly that was what the right were wanking on about when people suggested that Biden activate the national guard. But I'm probably wrong.

No, as I've been reading, that's generally correct.

But there is a federal "override" to command the National Guard in order to protect federal workers - which he'll claim he needs to do to protect the ICE agents (who are federal) from the protesters. Trump is, again, (ab)using emergency powers for light and transient causes.

As he did with the tariffs, in fact, as Congress is supposed to be in charge of the purse strings. But he just said "national emergency" and then wielded executive power to make it happen.

When these things go to court, it might well be ruled that he's overstepped the mark and it's illegal. But, thing is, he's doing this now and a court case disputing it is way in the future.

But, yeah, you're generally right. But there's a "national emergency" override that the federal government can use for dire situations, like an insurrection. So Trump's claiming that to take control... and it'll probably all be ruled illegal later on but, right now, he can do it on that claim of "protecting federal workers from insurrection" and deploy the military. Shoot some of these "libtards", get them scared to fall in line. And then, later, the court will say it was all illegal. Ah, well, never mind. Already happened, and Trump can claim that he honestly felt it was an emergency that deserved the abuse of power. Court says "no" but, too late, already happened.

[KlaxonCow]

Protests against ICE have also kicked off in Lower Manhattan, New York City, as well.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/i ... d/6294078/

It's remained the NYPD dealing with it so far, and arrests have been made. But Trump might well start "federalising" the National Guard all over the place and deploying them everywhere. Which, you know, is not that big of a step from effectively declaring martial law.

Just reading the comments on the Fox news reporting of this, and there's plenty of MAGA racists cheering this on from the sidelines, unfortunately.

[KlaxonCow]

DOGE was fundamentally pointless. Yet people have died because of it.

[tufty]

there's plenty of MAGA racists cheering this on from the sidelines, unfortunately.

You mean the people who were living for the day that that there durn gubmint overstepped the mark so they could pull out their AR15s are now cheering that there durn gubmint on as it oversteps the mark by a country mile? Colour me surprised.

[KlaxonCow]

You mean the people who were living for the day that that there durn gubmint overstepped the mark so they could pull out their AR15s are now cheering that there durn gubmint on as it oversteps the mark by a country mile? Colour me surprised.

Yeah, exactly.

Obama's been calling out the hypocrisy of it all:

[zip accident]

Is this the end of elections in the USA?

I almost can't believe it is, but OTOH, it really looks as if it might be.

[KlaxonCow]

Even besides that Trump has openly talked about "getting around" the prohibition on him serving a third term, which is a clear and open threat to disregard or rewrite American democracy and he has a prior track record of staging a coup rather than leave office peacefully, he has also been openly "disappearing" those who disagree with him to a "gulag" situated on foreign soil and outside of American legal jurisdiction.

You just cannot have free and fair elections in such a climate. You can't trust the process, you can't trust - with such a "sword of Damocles" hanging over the heads of his political opposition - that people are speaking and voting freely. You can't trust that Trump isn't simply rigging the result.

If Trump won a third term - which is constitutionally illegal in the first place - would you believe it was not rigged, no matter how "free and fair" it appeared to be? Would you trust or believe in that result? Would you accept that he's the true and valid President of the United States, with no funny business nor pressurising being involved?

It's already dead.

Trust is fundamental to the whole process, and that was already murdered a while back now.

[zip accident]

Even besides that Trump has openly talked about "getting around" the prohibition on him serving a third term, which is a clear and open threat to disregard or rewrite American democracy and he has a prior track record of staging a coup rather than leave office peacefully, he has also been openly "disappearing" those who disagree with him to a "gulag" situated on foreign soil and outside of American legal jurisdiction.

...

It's already dead.

Maybe, yeah.

USAians themselves don't seem to be understanding it, judges still seem to be judging, reporters still seem to be reporting they just don't seem to get it. The military particularly don't seem to get that the USA is gone. Until the military recognises it's gone and accepts that, it sort of isn't gone yet. does that make sense?

[zip accident]

Even besides that Trump has openly talked about "getting around" the prohibition on him serving a third term, which is a clear and open threat to disregard or rewrite American democracy and he has a prior track record of staging a coup rather than leave office peacefully, he has also been openly "disappearing" those who disagree with him to a "gulag" situated on foreign soil and outside of American legal jurisdiction.

...

It's already dead.

Maybe, yeah.

USAians themselves don't seem to be understanding it, judges still seem to be judging, reporters still seem to be reporting they just don't seem to get it. The military particularly don't seem to get that the USA is gone. Until the military recognises it's gone and accepts that, it sort of isn't gone yet. does that make sense?

How do you design a confederate flag with 50 stars?

[tufty]

You don't seem to be applying historical perspective. This massive enforcement overreaction to an induced "crisis" is looking an awful lot like a Reichstag fire moment. Especially when you view it in parallel with the enabling aspects of his "big beautiful bill". This "crisis" /will/ be used as leverage for pushing that through.

Democracy and the rule of law in the US is not dead yet, but it's currently getting fitted up for a six plank suit whilst the right wing cheer it on.

[zip accident]

You don't seem to be applying historical perspective. This massive enforcement overreaction to an induced "crisis" is looking an awful lot like a Reichstag fire moment. Especially when you view it in parallel with the enabling aspects of his "big beautiful bill". This "crisis" /will/ be used as leverage for pushing that through.

Democracy and the rule of law in the US is not dead yet, but it's currently getting fitted up for a six plank suit whilst the right wing cheer it on.

I'm mainly saying that "Old Glory" is or should be more offensive to black americans that a red flag with a white spot with a swastica in it.

In history, the reichstag fire was the culmination of a decade of nonsense, and the army was supported/outnumbered by a load of nazi militias, the USAian army is comparatively huge, and the militias aren't there so much.

I'm also having trouble believing that all republicans are nazis, but it kind of looks as if enough of them might be, we'll see

[KlaxonCow]

Democracy and the rule of law in the US is not dead yet, but it's currently getting fitted up for a six plank suit whilst the right wing cheer it on.

Agreed.

In saying "it's already dead", I meant that in a fatalistic sense that it now seems to be the inevitable outcome that it's being fitted up for, in the "dead man walking" sense.

The "dead man walking" is not literally dead, or they'd be unable to walk, but they are figuratively "already dead" because their coming death is deemed completely inevitable.

Indeed, in the same sense as a "lame duck President", as Trump ought to be, that he legally should not be able to take the office a third time, that it should be inevitable that he's gone at the end of this Presidency. But we all know he's going to try something. He's already openly admitted that he has got plans afoot already.

It's literally still there, as all the machinery remains in place and the wheel is turning, but it's "already dead" in that we all know - and it has been openly threatened already - that there's a big spanner in the works coming. An enabling act. A "national emergency" as a pre-text to suspending democracy. Something bloody awful is coming, for sure. Trump lacks subtlety and guile - he's more or less openly said so himself.

And to think that if Trump hadn't turned his head in that moment, none of this would be happening. Trump's MAGA is a personality cult, there is no "deputy" waiting in the Republican wings to take over. It would have ended on that stage. But we're apparently in the dark timeline where it didn't by the flukiest of flukes that you could never deliberately repeat, even if you tried.

[SuperMappy]

I honestly hope i am wrong, but something seriously bad is going to come of this which will be even worse than has already happened at places like Kent State University in my home state. Honestly the really sad part is all this violence is just giving right wing politicians the fuel they need to impose tougher restrictions and chip away at our freedoms.