Whiteball wrote:Similar PC spec market is all they have to match price wise. This has nothing to do with console/console type people. They have a mass market of people playing on PC with mediocre hardware and they probably see that those people would be the ones to buy a readymade box rather than try to install SteamOS on their own hardware. It may not even be a upgrade necessarily for some but it's the ease-of-use and low barrier to entry that this is all about.
Their aim has always been from the very begining to get people off Windows. Many years ago Gabe said they can't have their entire business (games and store) reliant on Windows not knowing what Microsoft were going to do in the future. They didn't like the direction Windows was going even then and I can only presume recent Microsoft moves have hastened their attempts to resurect the SteamOS dream and that's why we now have this.
They do not need to compete with console pricing, just similar spec PC pricing will do (but obviously the lower the better)
I dunnio. I'm not saying I'm sure that's wrong, but I'm not at all sure it's correct. They've put a lot of effort into the controller, but they guy on the left of that three person video seemed to say (once, but cut off) "I'll be mouse and keyboard" and if that's typical of PC gamers, then I really don't think you can rule console gamers out as a target.
There seems to be a lot of compute power in this, but maybe not so much GPU, perhaps because GPU is relatively expensive, maybe because GPU is harder to cool.
My PC is way underpowered all round compared to the Steam Machine, but the compute:GPU ratio is more to the GPU than this seems to be.
"My way is the way of not fighting":- the book of Enter the Dragon.
I also don't know that it greatly matters in the longer run.
The Steam Deck proved SteamOS, and this is more about anchoring SteamOS into the wider PC and VR space.
In the sense that, as a Linux user myself, I'd been using "Steam for Linux" and Proton before the Steam Deck came out. And while the Steam Deck refined things - that better "Big Picture" interface and the "Deck Verified" programme - I already knew that Proton could perform miracles, as I play all my games through it because I don't use Windows anymore (granted, though, I'm not the greatest tester because I tend to prefer Indie games like FTL, Darwinia, Colony Survival, Dead Cells and stuff that, actually, often has native Linux versions as well - I don't tend to play games that stretch GPUs to breaking point).
But I get it. I could come here and tell you all just how amazing Proton is on "Steam for Linux", but no-one's really listening or going to believe me.
So the release of the Steam Deck is needed to establish, with a mainstream audience, that this whole SteamOS thing actually bloody works.
And, like, I'm also saying that, yup, you could make your own "Steam Machine" right now. Just install Bazzite on a mini PC next to your TV in the living room and you're good to go. I'm sure that VNVObit - who's actually done this - can confirm that the experience is already there (albeit that, yes, when Valve release the Steam Machine, you know they're going to refine it even further and, hopefully, even release that "generic" SteamOS we're waiting for).
But, again, for the mainstream audience, here's Valve's official SteamOS box that you just need to hook up to your telly and away you go.
It's about anchoring it in these spaces. Proving the concept works in the public space. Establishing SteamOS as a valid alternative to Windows for gaming.
Before the Steam Deck was released, I already knew Proton worked. Because I'd already been using it on "Steam for Linux". But now everyone else can see it, with this flagship product that's not just proving SteamOS and Proton, but also proving that PC handhelds can work too (because those did also exist before the Steam Deck but the Steam Deck nailed the experience that everyone now gets it).
As long as the Steam Machine is not overpriced, it'll sell enough units that it'll establish and anchor "SteamOS" in the PC space.
I mean, in truth, it's already there. I've been using "Steam for Linux" and Proton for years now. The Steam Deck's been doing God's work for a number of years now. VNVObit already has built their own "Steam Machine" for under-the-telly gaming.
This shit already exists and it already works. Right here and right now. But this is about having official flagship products, for the mainstream audience to just buy, and it all works seamlessly out of the box. Then seeing is believing and everyone now knows - thanks to Steam Deck - that this Linux thing actually works.
The Steam Machine and Steam Frame will also go on to prove that, yes, it also works on PCs and in VR too, as well as PC handhelds.
In that sense - of the long-term "vision" of a SteamOS ecosystem, which eventually PC builders and third parties will get more and more involved in building up - then as long as these aren't a total flop (a la the first wave of "Steam Machines" that Valve essentially aborted before it began), Valve has already won the war. Whatever the result of the individual "battles" along the way.
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
Though this guy has a slightly irritating voice, I think he nails it with this video - comparing it to the Steam hardware survey and actual things that Valve's engineers have said:
And, again, if you are the sort of person who's disappointed that the Steam Machine doesn't have, say, a Ryzen Threadripper, 64GB of RAM and an RTX 5090 or whatever, then feel free to build a custom mini PC that has those specs and then stick Bazzite on it.
There's also no point in Valve chasing that high end, because if you've got the money for all that and the interest to know what all those numbers mean, then you can build your own custom PC (or pay the local computer store to make it for you) but tell 'em you want SteamOS on it, not Windows. Or, heck, if you're really pimping out that under-the-telly box, why not have multiple SSDs and have both SteamOS and Windows on the same box?
But, yeah, I think the video gets it. Valve have spec'd this to the average of the Steam hardware survey - its specs are better than what half of Steam users have right now - and are trying to make this an extension of the Steam Deck experience.
Because lots of users are just hooking up their Decks to the living room telly. In fact, I've done that a couple of times myself at Christmas - brought it over to a friend's and hooked it up to the telly. But, yes, if you could just have a little box (6 inch square) and a couple of Steam Controllers, then you could do that and play some local multiplayer / party games on it.
(And with a tiny bit of tinkering, that same box can otherwise be the "media centre PC" under the telly for streaming media, when it's not doing gaming duties. Indeed, Valve should perhaps consider adding a "media centre" thingy into the SteamOS interface - doesn't have to be all that clever and can just be an interface to the "Music" and "Videos" folders in your home directory, firing up VLC or something to play them.)
p.s. And one thing that folks are also forgetting is that SteamOS is a lean-and-mean operating system, compared to Windows. So when you run something on Windows then half your RAM has already been eaten by Windows and the some of the VRAM has gone to the Windows desktop, before you even fire up a game. It's been proved with that Lenovo PC handheld - which can run either Windows or SteamOS - that SteamOS was getting better frame rates than Windows on the same hardware, even when these were Windows titles running through Proton. Which, indeed, is ridiculous that SteamOS was running Windows games better than Windows can run them, on the exact same hardware, but this was consistently measured across a bunch of different games.
So SteamOS itself kind of wins you better performance by just being a much more efficient lean-amd-mean OS. People are thinking of RAM and VRAM and such in terms of running it on a Windows PC, but SteamOS can eke out slightly better performance on the same hardware.
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
Basically what I said earlier about knowing their market hardware and price wise based on their hardware survey data.
They never were trying to be anything other than hitting the mid-tier (for want of a better term) of gamers based on that data as that's where the majority of PC gamers are hardware wise according to their survey data.
Also, I wasn't saying this is not for console players, if they want to come across, the more the merrier.
But it is and always has been first and foremost as I also said, that they want to get away from Windows, they have always had that desire from day 1 of Valve/Steam.
I know of a few people that have become tired/disillusioned with the console space and want to move to PC but worry about the supposed cost so for them this could be their way in.
Now they seem to be pushing harder and faster at making that happen by coming up with a complete set of very good tech at (hopefully) reasonable prices.
But basically this is about moving the mass of people on Steam off Windows as they don't like their business and ecosystem being at the mercy of a company like Microsoft, now more than ever too I imagine with the current direction of Windows.
Whiteball wrote:But it is and always has been first and foremost as I also said, that they want to get away from Windows, they have always had that desire from day 1 of Valve/Steam.
Valve Software is old. Halflife came out in 1998-9 on Windows 98, and probably Windows 95 too. I don't think Valve had a serious problem with Microsoft until Windows 8, they'd probably have liked Steam to run elsewhere in theory before then, but up until Win 8 there wasn't a significantly big incentive to move.
"My way is the way of not fighting":- the book of Enter the Dragon.
He certainly made plenty of comments around 2012 (ish?) on this because of the impending Windows 8 'catastrophe' as he saw it then.
He did however also mention it a number of times before too. I even remeber it coming up when they were talking about half-life in preview interviews in magazines at the time, although that was more about not liking thier games being soley reliant on Microsoft. The same general 'not liking/distrust in' Microsoft though. Lets not forget he is ex-Microsoft and he left for a reason other than just founding Valve.
I don't think there is a massive push for console gamers, the push is for those with a Steam library and plenty game on laptops and have lower spec hardware that would never build their own box.
I don't even think they would expect to get anywhere close to console-like numbers, just enough people for devs to want to make sure it's worth having a 'Great on Machine' logo on the store page and get more and more away from the Windows dependency.
I could afford a good spec, I could install and OS and sort everything out. But I just don't want to. I gave up on tinkering with PCs and went full console ages ago. It was too much faff and spec envy. But for some reason I did keep adding to my Steam backlog with bundles, deals and freebies...
The Steam Deck pulled me back into the arena, and having an easy, small box that turns on with a controller, handles all the updates, and just works appeals massively. The spec is fine, I don't really care about AAA 1st person stuff, Steam OS will gain a few frames on Windows and if it's anything like the Deck, then developers will start to optimise for the Machine to get a decent experience.
I do want someone to put the Frame's dongle in one and show us how Half Life Alyx works, but I'm pretty much day one for both.
Misfit wrote:I could afford a good spec, I could install and OS and sort everything out. But I just don't want to. I gave up on tinkering with PCs and went full console ages ago. It was too much faff and spec envy. But for some reason I did keep adding to my Steam backlog with bundles, deals and freebies...
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Same for me. Got tired of Windows PCs and earlier this year was the turning point for me. Not a massive fan of Windows 11 (or most things MS if I'm honest).
SteamDeck looks great however no need of a portability and a screen and its a bit underpowered. I have a stack of Steam games waiting to be played. My Mac supports only a few in my library but having something as easy to use under the TV that will access my library is a massive draw.
Its like my ideal gaming machine. Been with Steam since 2004 (Half Life 2 release) and really its the only digital ecosystem I want to buy into going forward.
The fact that its running Linux under everything is great as is the fact if I want to I can tinker and do things with it I'm not on locked and vendor controlled hardware (consoles).
Although I do like my Nintendo games. Kind of irks me a bit that I have no choice with the Switch and have to have a screen that I rarely use (having it docked most of the time). Anyway another story.
I expect with a SteamBox and Frame probably keep me happy for a long while. Just need that price now and well a release date! Its all on the wishlist ready.
A light that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
Steam/Xbox/PSN User Name: CypherQ Switch - 8177-9514-5116
Misfit wrote:I don't think there is a massive push for console gamers, the push is for those with a Steam library and plenty game on laptops and have lower spec hardware that would never build their own box.
I don't even think they would expect to get anywhere close to console-like numbers, just enough people for devs to want to make sure it's worth having a 'Great on Machine' logo on the store page and get more and more away from the Windows dependency.
I could afford a good spec, I could install and OS and sort everything out. But I just don't want to. I gave up on tinkering with PCs and went full console ages ago. It was too much faff and spec envy. But for some reason I did keep adding to my Steam backlog with bundles, deals and freebies...
The Steam Deck pulled me back into the arena, and having an easy, small box that turns on with a controller, handles all the updates, and just works appeals massively. The spec is fine, I don't really care about AAA 1st person stuff, Steam OS will gain a few frames on Windows and if it's anything like the Deck, then developers will start to optimise for the Machine to get a decent experience.
I do want someone to put the Frame's dongle in one and show us how Half Life Alyx works, but I'm pretty much day one for both.
MattyP wrote:Although I do like my Nintendo games. Kind of irks me a bit that I have no choice with the Switch and have to have a screen that I rarely use (having it docked most of the time). Anyway another story.
SteamOS uses Arch Linux with the KDE Plasma desktop, as in the video. For legal purposes, this is merely coincidental and does not represent any endorsement of anything.
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
Cool I've been looking at messing around emulating the Switch but not got around to it yet! Always good to have options. I was starting to wonder why I bothered with a Switch 2 to be honest... Other than a couple of exclusive games at the moment the rest are just Switch games running with performance options that an emulator will give.
Anyhow ... Thanks for the info.... Also just for the record all games I have on the Switch I've bought.
A light that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
Steam/Xbox/PSN User Name: CypherQ Switch - 8177-9514-5116
If Steam ever take the Mac seriously, then yes, the Mac Mini could easily be the ultimate TV box. The standard M5 chip is pretty impressive on the gaming front so looking forward to see what the Pro chip will be like. If that comes with a redesign of the MacBook then I'm in on that too. It's slightly tricky there though, as my M1 Pro still knocks it out of the park for my workload...
