MattyP wrote:For anyone looking to get Crossover for the Mac it's currently on a Cyber Monday deal for £15 (down from £60). Works well. Needs a bit of tweaking for the more demanding texture heavy 3D games. But to be fair that Mac Mini was never designed as gaming powerhouse!
Misfit wrote:
The question now is, do I add another year for £15..?
I wonder if it will let you? Suppose its worth a try! Apparently Cyber Monday discounts are a regular thing so probably worth popping it in the calendar for next year!
A light that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
Steam/Xbox/PSN User Name: CypherQ Switch - 8177-9514-5116
Valve is working on a "Lepton" Android compatibility layer for Linux and VR — Could we ever see Android games running on the Steam Deck and its Steam Machine PC?
Is this the next Proton? Valve's new 'androidarm64' translation layer could mean bigger things for PC gaming.
PC gaming giant Valve appears to be expanding its gaming software portfolio, currently building an Android compatibility layer called Lepton (via Gaming on Linux). Proof of its official name is slim, but an official Steam store page reveals its froggy logo, and SteamDB hints at its potential origins as a fork of Waydroid.
This is, of course, very interesting because forking WINE is how we got Proton, and now they're forking Waydroid to get "Lepton" - and the name fits, as leptons are elementary particles like electrons. So the naming convention fits.
And, basically, if Valve go as ham on "Lepton" to make Android work on SteamOS, as they did with Proton to make Windows work on SteamOS, then we're in for a treat.
The fact that the Steam Frame uses ARM - and they've ported SteamOS to ARM - was a hidden bombshell. But it looks like the idea is that the Frame might well use "Lepton" to be their Proton for Android / ARM.
And so Android APKs might well be coming to Steam / SteamOS - they kind of have to, in order to support the Steam Frame.
It looks like Valve are being really clever, in that - having taken on Windows with Proton - they can also expand their ecosystem to Android and ARM. Something Windows can't easily match. And, indeed, as Android is based on the Linux kernel (it's a "Linux distro", it's just not a "GNU + Linux distro", per Stallman's definitions), so this all could actually be much easier / more compatible to do than Proton ever was.
And going down the ARM route also offers potential for Macs in the future... as Apple's M chips are modified ARM. So you never know. Once they've conquered Windows with Proton and Android with Lepton, a fork of Lepton could try to be more iOS / Mac compatible to really expand the ecosystem in every direction.
We live in interesting times.
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
This is backed up by an interview given by a Valve engineer that this video covers:
That the longer term plan is, indeed, an ARM-based SteamOS for "low power devices" that'll include FEX - the x86-to-ARM JIT compiler - and an Android "translation layer", as a "Proton for Android / ARM" layer.
Because in the same way that Valve don't want to be dependent on Windows - particularly with the batshit Windows 11 / Co-pilot stuff that's going on at the moment - then why also be dependent on it being x86 PC hardware?
One interesting thing that I hadn't considered with FEX is that you only have to do the x86-to-ARM JIT compiling on the application's own code, because once it calls, say, the Windows API or DirectX or Vulkan or whatever, Proton / Lepton already has native code for that. The emulator part only has to convert the game's x86 code to ARM. Once it calls an API, then that's inside Proton / Lepton and can run at native speed. So it's really only the CPU that's getting translated, as the GPU stuff is accessed through DirectX / Vulkan and that'll all be native code. And you could end up with interesting things like a more GPU-bound game running way better than a more CPU-bound game does.
And, thinking even more longer term, if through these efforts, the 3% market share of Linux goes up to 10%, 15% - which is about where Apple sit - and more, when there's an ecosystem of third-party "Steam Machines", then creating Linux native ports makes more and more sense. And you could therefore potentially reach the point where you need the reverse - a Proton that converts Linux system calls to Windows API (you wouldn't have to translate Vulkan so much, as it can run on Windows already).
The longest term plan of a Proton that can run anything on anything else, removing the need for either developers or gamers to consider so much what platform something works on, as it can be made to run on any platform (give or take). This idea - at least as an abstract concept - of freeing gamers and devs from even caring what platform a game was developed for, as there are ways and means of making it work anywhere (albeit that, yes, performance will vary and you might need a more powerful beast - but, as time goes on, hardware does keep improving, after all), is something that Valve's engineer hints at.
This is perhaps the most interesting bit. That Valve's "vision" is to eventually bring down all the walls and with such a big player doing the polar opposite of "open garden" (as opposed to "walled garden"), can any competitor compete with their "walled garden" exclusives? Against the might of the Steam Store, often powered by SteamOS, quite openly doing the complete opposite and opening everything up? Not just for gamers, but also for devs - because the other beauty of Proton is that, while you can definitely tweak and optimise specifically for it for the best results, you generally don't have to do anything on the development side and "it just works".
And Valve might also be thinking ahead that, eventually, we might well start seeing RISC-V devices showing up. It's still new and it still can't match ARM and x86, but the rate at which it's catching up means that, yeah, if you've got a "10 year plan" then don't forget there's a third player on its way up as well. And once RISC-V becomes a serious contender, then a lot of manufacturers might well want to switch, simply because there's no licensing fees - always follow the money - and it can also be customised (there's a "core" but there's also optional modules, so another way manufacturers might look to save money is RISC-V "core" but, like, we don't need this, this and this, so drop those and it's cheaper still to produce).
There's a silent "open vs. closed" war going on here in the background. My money will always be on "open", of course, just because that's the world I want to see, but it is also where, I feel, the smart money is bet, because "open" as a strategy is one that gamers and devs can get behind - as it benefits them - and "stranglehold economics" is regressive and tends not to stand up to an open competitor (see the IBM PC versus everyone else - Commodore, Atari, Sinclair, etc. - except for Apple, who're basically the only survivor, holding on with their own little ecosystem).
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
I am favouring a more open ecosystem. At least and open walled garden as you mention.
I've been trapped in one eco system or another for what 20 years or so I guess. Xbox mainly however I think I have bought most of my digital content on Steam over the years so have a healthy library built up. However until the announcement of the Steam Machine that has been effectively trapped in a Windows ecosystem due to GPU drivers mostly.
This is why SteamOS, Proton, Linux and the SteamMachine combo is so appealing to me. Pretty much gathers everything together that love about ease of use with consoles (and small form factor). I've tried having the big PC box and using Steam Link in the past to play games on the TV (in big screen mode) but probably due to my network or whatever was a bit laggy. However I expect the SM will solve a lot of these problems. Also allow running of emulators too so I can play my old favourites.
After much pondering really looking forward to the pre-orders opening up for this. Decided to go for it. If it works well this and my Mac Mini will be the only things I will need going forward to cover gaming and home PC things off. Also no MS. Although still have an Xbox kicking around for the BC side of things. I'll see how emulation goes on the SM for 360 games.
A light that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
Steam/Xbox/PSN User Name: CypherQ Switch - 8177-9514-5116
Going to be interesting to see how long those RAM prices stay high. This has the potential to really cause pricing problems across all gaming hardware.
Guess we'll have to just wait it out and see what happens with the SM. Depends on how much RAM they stocked up on before the announcement and I expect they've been busy building machines for the early '26 release.
Still pre-ordering at the first opportunity. New toys and all that. Also have a bulging steam library I want to play on the TV. Also emulators etc will be nice to have too.
A light that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
Steam/Xbox/PSN User Name: CypherQ Switch - 8177-9514-5116
While Steam seems to be fine now, what will it be like in 50 years? If it's the only garden, can we be certain that adverts won't be inserted and walls erected at some point.
"My way is the way of not fighting":- the book of Enter the Dragon.
zip accident wrote:While Steam seems to be fine now, what will it be like in 50 years? If it's the only garden, can we be certain that adverts won't be inserted and walls erected at some point.
No, we can't, and I'd love to be alive in 50 years to worry about that.
Now that digital distribution is getting close to the only way, we're always going to be vulnerable. But there will always be people out there looking for ways to preserve and fight back.
MattyP wrote:
Still pre-ordering at the first opportunity. New toys and all that. Also have a bulging steam library I want to play on the TV. Also emulators etc will be nice to have too.
I expect at least 4 more mind changes from you before release.
The big issue will be getting a pre-order in. I imagine the first batch will sell out in seconds, and how many will be allocated to the UK?
I failed miserably on the first batch of Steam Decks, and it feels like this is creating more hype.
zip accident wrote:While Steam seems to be fine now, what will it be like in 50 years? If it's the only garden, can we be certain that adverts won't be inserted and walls erected at some point.
50 years? I predict 5.
If they think you're crude, go technical; if they think you're technical, go crude. I'm a very technical boy.
zip accident wrote:While Steam seems to be fine now, what will it be like in 50 years? If it's the only garden, can we be certain that adverts won't be inserted and walls erected at some point.
50 years? I predict 5.
I think it will take at least 10 years to fully eliminate Sony, Microsoft, Google, Meta and Nintendo.
"My way is the way of not fighting":- the book of Enter the Dragon.
MattyP wrote:
Still pre-ordering at the first opportunity. New toys and all that. Also have a bulging steam library I want to play on the TV. Also emulators etc will be nice to have too.
I expect at least 4 more mind changes from you before release.
The big issue will be getting a pre-order in. I imagine the first batch will sell out in seconds, and how many will be allocated to the UK?
I failed miserably on the first batch of Steam Decks, and it feels like this is creating more hype.
Yeah bit indecisive here at times. Really like the Idea of the Steam Machine though. Kind of has an early 80s/90s micro feel about it and something different to the usual Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo devices. It's a nice half and way house between the PC and completely closed off console ecosystem.
Yes don't expect to get one anywhere near launch so completely realistic about the situation! It's not as if I don't have enough to play to be honest. Now I also have Crossover on the Mac too. So happy to wait and take any opportunity to get one when one comes up.
A light that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
Steam/Xbox/PSN User Name: CypherQ Switch - 8177-9514-5116
We are beginning to throw away 32GB DDR4-2933(or a tick more?) ECC server memory at work now. I think I need to check if my mb can work with the size and ECC...
All new servers are DDR5 and with a re-design of network, storage and a new hw generation we are seeing a very nice performance improvement over 7 years old tech.
I was beginning to entertain the thought of refreshing my pc to jump from 16GB to 64, or perhaps 128 , with matching cpu, mb and gfx, but this might not be the time?
Initial Mac & Crossover impressions:
The Mac, and its Nano Texture Display, is gorgeous.
Sure, it has the stoopid notch, but other than that, it's a truly lovely screen, matte while still being incredibly bright and colourful.
Oh, and the oddly proportioned, more square screen is also a big selling point. It makes this 14" laptop feel bigger than it has any right to.
It also means that video editing software, like Premiere and Resolve, doesn't feel as cramped as it usually does on 16:9 single screens.
Crossover was a doddle to install, and reminds me of Lutris on Linux; I'm currently installing Guild Wars 2 on it, and it's shoving it into "bottles" a la wine.
It presents a list of recommended games, and you can just click them to install. So far, it seems that they have made it as easy as possible.
After I'm done with installing GW2, I may pop Cyberpunk on it, give it a real push.
I don't expect anywhere near the performance of my desktop, but I'm still curious to see if it's playable.
It is nice to be using a Mac again.
I'm don't favour any OS over any other really, instead choosing whichever one is best for whatever situation. But I've not had a Mac for five years now, since my last work-provided MacBook, and this just feels... swish. Incredible industrial design, a fast and responsive GUI, and a lovely trackpad & keyboard help make it feel decidedly premium next to my poor old Lenovo.
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