Politics Thread!

Inane baanter or words of wisdom - you decide...
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KlaxonCow
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by KlaxonCow »

PFVA wrote:In the meantime the EU and India sign the trade agreement.
Good, good.

As I've been saying, the only real way to de-escalate and end this Trump tariff nonsense is to take his favourite toys away from him. If the rest of the world works together - through trade deals - to satisfy their needs, then they should just increasingly cut America out of global trade.

Then Trump can stand there shouting "10% tariffs! 20% tariffs! 40% tariffs! 30000% tariffs!" all he likes, because no-one's actually bothering to attempt importing into America anymore.

Yes, America is a lucrative market, as they are the richest country on planet Earth. But, that said, it's a very, very unequal distribution of wealth - so the averages are skewed and you've got to ask yourself, as an importer, if the average American consumer really is worth more than a consumer elsewhere, if you're not specifically targeting luxury goods to its insanely over-valued billionaires. And they are only 5% of world population.

We'd rather not, and the instant America sees sense and disposes of the nonsense of their Orange King, then we'll happily welcome them back to the international fold.

But the world absolutely can do without them. We can cut them out, and instantly de-fang Trump's tariff threats - and then we should resist, as it won't be economically necessary and just political posturing, to retaliate with our own tariffs, so America can still export outwards and we won't show prejudice to that.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that this really isn't a major imposition. Because America's almost entirely a service industry economy - tariffs on services, like YouTube, Facebook, Hollywood movies, etc. now that would hurt massively. But American cars? A bottle of Jack Daniels? Harley Davidsons? It's not a big deal to (hopefully, only temporarily) lose that shit.

Indeed, part of Trump's whole insane rationale is that the world is "scamming" America because we export cars and things to them, but they barely export anything particularly useful - in terms of goods, as services is very different - to the rest of the world. With his toddler mind, he thinks that's "being scammed" when it's just normal economic trade that things aren't always symmetrical.

Sir Alan is grossly simplifying, of course, for the purposes of dramatic presentation, but the underlying point is real and salient. That cutting America out of global goods trade really wouldn't make that much difference to anything:



And if, indeed, he wants to make foreign cars more expensive to artificially force Americans to buy American cars, then let him do so. As they're a bit shit, and every American knows it, so they'll just pay the extra expense, be poorer and, in the economic doldrums, Trump will never win a fair election ever again (even ignoring that, legally, he should not even be able to stand for election for a third time anyway).

We shouldn't panic, as the rest of the world. If Trump wants to weirdly impose sanctions on his own country, then we should follow the sage wisdom of "if an enemy is making a terrible mistake, then don't interrupt them".

Give him what he wants. Isolate America out of global trade, and just sit back and watch them sink themselves into the ground. Then stand by - as a good friend and ally - to help them recover and rejoin the world, when they've gotten past this weird "fascist toddler" phase.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by Little stoned kiwi »

Things are getting tense with Iran. The US might launch strikes soon and Iran isn't going to hold back with their response.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by PFVA »

Yesterday on the news in French I saw that a French tech company named Capgemini is going to be investigated by their government because of being contracted by ICE. Apparently they collected Americans data, things like employers, cars, unpaid credit, mortgages, to obtain list of those who may be immigrants and may be ilegal in country.
The company's board is also having a emergency meeting to discuss it.
On the weird stuff I see recently this is another one, the America First people contract a foreign company to do that?

Someone here in forum living in France may have more info and explain the issue better than I, as French is just my second language, and unlike English I never used it regularly on a daily basis.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by F-ZeroOne »

Trump may think hes the President, but he'll never be The Boss:

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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by Harlequin »

I have not listened to much Springsteen. Is Bob Dylan impersonating Billy Bragg his usual style?
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by rowan »

PFVA wrote:Yesterday on the news in French I saw that a French tech company named Capgemini is going to be investigated by their government because of being contracted by ICE. Apparently they collected Americans data, things like employers, cars, unpaid credit, mortgages, to obtain list of those who may be immigrants and may be ilegal in country.
The company's board is also having a emergency meeting to discuss it.
On the weird stuff I see recently this is another one, the America First people contract a foreign company to do that?

Someone here in forum living in France may have more info and explain the issue better than I, as French is just my second language, and unlike English I never used it regularly on a daily basis.
Capgemini are another huge consulting/outsourcing company, like Deloitte, PWC etc.
It's pretty common that big business & governments contract them for all sorts.

I never realised they were French though.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by zip accident »

InCEl?
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by KlaxonCow »

Harlequin wrote:Is Bob Dylan impersonating Billy Bragg his usual style?
Actually, he's much closer to an American Billy Bragg than most people might understand or recognise.

He's much misunderstood, because his most famous song - "Born in the USA" - seems superficially like some jingoistic patriotic song, and is, indeed, often erroneously played at political rallies to celebrate being all-American.

Until you actually see the lyrics, to realise that the verses are harsh, and the chorus is just oozing and dripping with sarcasm:



Because, actually, "Born in the USA" is about the mistreatment of a working class veteran of the Vietnam war, upon his arrival home - because there were no ticker tapes parades for those who came back. He's not remotely praising the country and its administration, but tearing its policies a new arsehole - standing up for the common man.

So, weirdly, Billy Bragg is closer to the mark than many people realise, because Springsteen's style is always romanticising the working class struggle - against the system, against the odds. He makes heroes out of the small ordinary people. They are always his "main characters" every single time, and the villain, all too often, is the atrocious state of the country and its leadership.

This is one of my favourites that captures teenage rebellion, and a romantic "you and me against the world, baby" attitude, like no other song I know:



And this music video is, in my opinion, directorial genius. Because, listen carefully - Bruce is singing live. He's singing live on a music video, because he's letting the sounds of the streets - of the common people - deliberately invade the track.



The makers of the movie knew that, for a tale of a man struggling with AIDS, there was no-one else to write the soundtrack to emotionally elevate the downtrodden.

(Don't get me wrong. I'm sure there were multiple takes and that dog bark was well-placed, and the motorcycle covering the scene transition was all planned. The drums and synths themselves are clearly from the studio. But to be able to hear his footsteps as he sings. No other music video ever dared to do this, and I adore it for that reason.)

But, again, Springsteen is always romanticising the mundane and ordinary - raising it to hero status, while condemning the shit of the system and a life that oppresses them.

Like nearly all his songs, it's another "Fanfare to the Common Man". Because, yes, that is Springsteen. It's romantic tributes and fanfares to the man on the street. Poetically making VIPs out of the nobodies of this world. The heroic struggles of "the lowest" against an unsympathetic system that conspires to crush them.

So, strangely, yes, there have always - every time - been shades of Billy Bragg to Springsteen. Just, you know, with that unquenchable American optimism underpinning it - the common man always wins, at least spiritually - to a rock 'n roll beat.


p.s. Only just noticed, in that "Streets of Philadelphia" video, he walks in the gutter, not on the sidewalk. Yes, he's very much Sting's "King of Pain" and that's his soul up there. He is and he isn't showing the best of the city - it's all run down but the mess is what makes it home, right?
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by tufty »

Billy Bragg, you say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKOW2ZikGW8

Not sure he hasn't ripped off Bill Bailey's "unisex chip shop" there, though.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by tufty »

double post dammit.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by F-ZeroOne »

I never said I liked the song. :) (though to be clear, I very much appreciate the sentiment). Bruces voice has clearly aged, theres not a lot he can do about that.

I did nearly post the Billy Bragg one.

“Born in the USA” is like Neil Youngs “Keep on Rockin’ in the Free World”; beloved of certain political parties for the title but who have clearly never actually listened to the lyrics.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by KlaxonCow »

Yeah, to be clear, Springsteen's not a favourite, as he can be too "country and Western" for my musical tastes.

But - much like Billy Bragg, to be honest - I appreciate the mission and the poetry, that they are always standing up for the common man.

I recognise the soul behind it, even if, nah, the music and individual songs ain't my cup of tea.

Both Bragg and Springsteen are not on my playlist, but if their songs are playing, then they will gain a respectful nod of appreciation for always fighting the good fight. Even if I'm not that fussed on the song itself.

Not as well-known, but Martyn Joseph does this sort of thing well too:



And I like that he sees the young as the solution-to-be, not as a problem.

But, no, musically and for lyrical depth, the Preachers actually win:

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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by F-ZeroOne »

Well, the high I.Q. Geniuses latest move was to announce he would be decertifying all Canadian made aircraft, in a spat over a delay in certifying Gulfstream aircraft in Canada.

This has been quickly walked back to the usual “TARFIFF!” Threat, presumably after someone pointed out this would ground a significant proportion of the US commercial and non-front line military aircraft fleet.

Acing those cognitive tests, baby!
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by zip accident »

This isn't about Trump, perhaps oddly.

Apparently, the Epstein files contain proof that Mandelson was supporting Epstein in using USAian bankers to oppose government policy while Mandelson himself was an advisor to that government.

That should have got him fired if nothing else related to Epstein did.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2kzmnr14lo
For a decade and a half, I have wondered about a private conversation I had with the late Alistair Darling, Chancellor of the Exchequer under Gordon Brown, about the financial crisis.

Darling told me about a painful and angry telephone conversation he had with Jamie Dimon, chief executive of US banking giant JP Morgan, at the end of 2009 when the UK government announced plans to tax bankers' bonuses.

...

But - to my utter astonishment - details of the background and the context to this call appear to be in the Epstein files released on Friday, and appear to have involved the unlikely combination of Peter Mandelson, Jeffrey Epstein and the suggestion of "mild threats" over the bonus tax.

Mandelson, then business secretary, seemingly suggested that Dimon should threaten Darling mildly over the tax.

...

While Darling refused to cave, he did recall that a number of bankers rang him up with what seemed like a script to complain about the bonus tax, urging a U-turn.

It occurred with such regularity that Darling started to tell them what they were about to say before they said it, having heard the words repeatedly.

...

The files indicate that Mandelson wrote to Epstein in December 2009, before the Dimon call saying: "Treasury digging in but I am on [the] case."
It is old news now, but if true it reads like treason to me.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by F-ZeroOne »

I don't think our current PM is going to be PM for much longer.

And unfortunately that may mean the PM after the next one is called Nigel. Spoiler alert: it won't work.
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