Gay?

Every now and then a Llamasoftie will say something interesting. Honestly! This is where we will keep these topics so that they don't get deleted.
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Post by Stone »

Harlequin wrote:
Stone wrote:And incidentally you will occasionally find someone who fits in enough circles to effectively be 'your other half' - this happened to me recently, and we spent weeks going 'yeah, me too!' - great stuff :D
:)

May I suggest, in connection with another thread, that this is the primary person to whom you should consider opening up?
Yeah, I did. But thanks ;)
Harlequin wrote:Ramble away. It's not my footpath :).
Ta :)

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Post by Harlequin »

I wrote:I'm usually "mistaken" for "a straight".
For example, I just emptied Tara in the park behind the Hampstead Theatre[0] then popped in to pick up my chair leg[1]. While there I bumped into Saffron Myers, who directed me in many plays over the years but with whom I haven't communicated since early last year. Filling her in on what's happened since then I go into how Alan2 accidentally discovered my genetic mother, the story starting, more or less, with how I originally met Alan about fifteen years ago at the Rainbow Circle camps[2] and fell in love with him.

At this point, Saffron emits the kind of "Ahhh..." that generally precedes the word, "Sweet".

She then says, "I didn't even know you were gay."

This after working with me for years. And the fact that the "lucky top" I always wear for the last week of rehearsals has, "MARCH ORGANISER -- LESBIAN AND GAY PRIDE 1995"[6] printed on the front in large letters.

It's getting to the point where I'm probably more surprised by people being surprised than the actual people being surprised themselves.

So to speak :).

H.

[0] Opposite the Central School of Speech and Drama which, as previously mentioned, sort of initiated many of the events in these footnotes by not playing a major part in my life.

[1] Don't ask.

[2] Which my mother, by pure coincidence, started attending about three years ago[3], also coincidentally running, at the time of Alan's discovery, the same area that I created all those years before[5]. Those of you who don't know the full story should be getting a better idea of the absurdity of it all by now. The deity producing last year's reality was apparently hiring a scriptwriter from Dallas or Soap :D.

[3] Ever since my teens, and even today after everything (AFAIK) has been revealed, Mum remarks upon my clothes and behaviour and states, "I don't know why you're like that. You didn't get it from us." She knows who I bloody got it from -- my birth mother's a hippy![4] I'm more similar to my mother, both in appearance and in personality, than any of my siblings who were raised by her. This has given me much to consider regarding genetic influences.

[4] And my father is, or was, a gay Spaniard, BTAS.

[5] With help from Martin Kavanagh, with whom Jeff and I later founded VRUG. All things are connected, you see :).

[6] I've never actually organised the march. The top was given to me by the bloke who chaired Pride that year.[7]

[7] You're in a twisty maze of footnotes, all different.
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Post by Dave »

Harlequin wrote:
Dave wrote:There is a scale (I cannot remember the name of it) which positions people based upon their degree of sexual orientation. One end is completely heterosexual, the middle is transsexual, and the other end is homosexual. I would probably classify myself as being in-between completely hetero and completely transsexual. Everyone varies along this scale.
I think that you're referring to the Kinsey Scale (developed by Alfred Kinsey in the 40s) and that by "transsexual" you meant to write "bisexual". "Transsexuality" applies to gender (usually a discrepancy between physical and mental gender identity), not to sexual attraction. As I wrote earlier, I consider sexuality to be far more complex than can be represented on a one-dimensional line. I prefer to envision an omnidimensional sphere in which a multitude of different preferences and traits can be represented (most of which can change over time).
Yup, that was my error. I realized it right after I shut my computer and went to bed last night.
One of my college professors wrote:A transsexual is a person whose gender identity does not match their biological sex. For the majority of us, biological sex and gender identity are consistent. However, for some, a serious mismatch appears to exist. While transsexualism is uncommon (affecting fewer than 1/30,000), it is, nonetheless a problem that has received a great deal of attention.

The term "transgenderism is one that has recently been used to describe persons whose appearance and behavior does not conform to societal roles associated with a particular sex. While transexuals may be considered to be extreme examples of transgenderism, many transgendered persons may not be classified as transsexuals. The point that seems to be most important in this distinction is the extent to which the person may experience dysphoria with their own body and gender status. The term "gender identity disorder", which is currently used by the American Psychiatric Association (1994), has used to describe many transsexuals persons and some transgendered persons. Certainly the concept of gender is more complex than many of us may have realized.

Most transsexuals report having felt a sense of unease with their body from early childhood. A male transsexual may want to cut off his penis, and a female transsexual may hate her breasts and want them removed. This unease is more than being a little confused or unhappy about things. It represents a fundamental disconnect between what they are biologically (or chromosomally) and how they perceive themselves.

Currently, the only treatment for this disorder is sex reassignment. This is a multi-stage process that requires extensive screening. Those who appear to have a real sense of gender dysphoria (unhappiness with their biological sex) are instructed to live for the next several months as the other sex. If that is successful, hormone therapy follows. In male to female transsexuals, anti-androgen drugs and estrogen are given to encourage breast development, soften the skin, etc. In female to male transsexuals, testosterone is given to encourage the growth of facial hair, lower the voice, etc. Testosterone also inhibits menstruation. If the candidate still wishes to proceed, then surgery is performed to fashion genitals that are consistent with the person's gender identity. Most transsexuals (both male and female) report that they are happy with the reassignment. Male to female surgery tends to be somewhat more successful than female to male reassignment in terms of orgasmic capacity after surgery. Almost all female to male transsexuals prefer female sex partners after surgery. Male to female transsexuals show more variability. This surgery remains controversial.
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Post by Dave »

Harlequin wrote:IME, monogamous homosexual relationships aren't particularly more prone to failure than heterosexual ones. Polygamous and polyamorous ones, however, (whatever the mix of genders) have far more potential points of failure: there are two sets of feelings involved between two people (one set each way), six between three people; twelve between four people, etc. It does work for some people, as I wrote, but I would advise anyone to consider the potential consequences should things go wrong.
Ah, I never thought about it that way! :D Yes, statistically then they'll be much more difficult to achieve harmony, and would likely yield higher split-up rates.
arron wrote:I'm a sort of anti-sexual. I feel love and compassion for virtually everyone who I meet, but I have no desire to get into sexual relations with them..it just doesn't happen. I've been known to hug people, have fun with them and the idea of having children is attractive to me.

The feeling for this is no based on guilt or fear..it's like I have almost zero desire for it. A pint of lager has the same appeal as drinking urine..I don't have any good or bad feelings about doing either..
Do you masturbate or gratify yourself sexually in any way on some sort of frequent basis? If not, your brain tends to put sexual desires at bay and you don't feel them. Essentially, if you don't use them, you feel them.

Unless you have something else that's recessing your sexual drive (emotional/traumatic experience/excessive worry), there's an easy way to fix this. Frequently masturbate. How frequent is frequent? Depends on the person. Twice or thrice a day here. 8O Some men only do it once every few days, or once every week. Try it, it's fun! :D

http://www.jackinworld.com/
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Post by gilesgoat »

punkrulesok wrote:
Stone wrote:And incidentally you will occasionally find someone who fits in enough circles to effectively be 'your other half' - this happened to me recently, and we spent weeks going 'yeah, me too!' - great stuff
Its amazing, that feeling, isnt it. For lack of a proper deffinition, i think its called LOVE!
I mean, no one person can define what love is, because, to every person, it is different, i reckon. You just "know" :)
It might be a cliche, but when you find "that special person", it does change your outlook on the world surround you. Things that wound you up, dont matter anymore; certain things that you thought you would allways be really passionate about, all of a sudden go on the back burner.
:)
..... 8O ..... (astonished of such wisdom in few sentences) ....

... so true ....

Well .. "Love" is really a "too misused word" .. too many times is NOT
clear at all what it means or it should mean but I think it's perfectly
right what you say, when you "know" you don't need to say it really ..

If it's true and truely shared who "knows" trusts and don't need the
word ...
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Post by Yak »

It's true that "love" is a word which is *much* overused and cheapened by inappropriate use - if meant truly to describe that kind of connection then it is something which must and cannot be used casually. We hear it all the time in songs and through the media, "ooh baby I love you", as if it were something that is cheap and easy to find... whereas in fact it cannot be truly declared without deep and profound knowledge of the other on *all* levels, not just on trivial levels of physical attraction... where people mistake "infatuation" for "love" and declare it prematurely and act as if it were true, then... well, there is the possibility for a whole world of hurt when they find out that after all there is in fact no deep understanding at all, no bedrock to base such plans and actions upon.

It is a small word with which one must be very careful...

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Post by gravy »

I know what you're saying but I really do love Bovril :)
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Post by koworld »

lardygaz wrote:I know what you're saying but I really do love Bovril :)
Is that Kevin Bovril? Lives down St. Mary's way?
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Post by gravy »

koworld wrote:
lardygaz wrote:I know what you're saying but I really do love Bovril :)
Is that Kevin Bovril? Lives down St. Mary's way?
shhh biscs will hear :)
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Post by chr$ »

Thought I'd finally make a comment on this thread as the last few posts have really struck a nerve.

When I first met Kay, to me it was "love at first sight" and I always thought I would never ever feel that way about anyone else. This feeling was totally alien to me as I have always held the view that "love" is a four letter word and 99.9% of people who use it don't know what it really means. I don't like the word and never will. Despite everything that has happened between Kay and I over the past year I still feel exactly the same way about her now as I did then. She will always have a place in my heart and it would kill me to see anything bad happen to her or to see her upset.

Thing is I'm now with Amanda. What we have together goes so far beyond any kind of meaning that "that" word can ever have and it totally outshines anything that I have ever felt before. We sat for a whole night talking about each other. I was telling her things about herself that I didn't know how I knew (silly things like her favourite colour, books, food etc.) and she was doing the same to me. We have spent time together doing absolutely nothing at all, just sitting holding each other and not even talking, just being. What we have isn't love - that is just what society conditions you to call it. I love my family, I love all of you guys n gals, I love eating, I love lots of things, but I don't love Amanda, it is beyond love.

Going back to what I said earlier about not liking the word. There is[.b] a word that has always had a special meaning to me for as long as I can remember. Believe me or not (the choice is yours), when Jeff announced the name of his hush hush project earlier this year, I sat and cried.
UNITY. That one word means more to me than any other word in the dictionary. This is what Amanda and I have. At the risk of sounding pretentious or whatever, we are one. I'm getting stuck now, I don't know how to say what I want to say - I'm not very good with words and never have been (one of the reasons I don't normally make long profound posts even when I want to).

Fuckit. I'm just gonna finish now and post this now before I have second thoughts and delete it all. Sorry for waffling on.
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Post by Bluey »

Yak wrote:It's true that "love" is a word which is *much* overused and cheapened by inappropriate use - if meant truly to describe that kind of connection then it is something which must and cannot be used casually.

Ever get told by someone that they love you? and then not known what to do about it?

I have the same view on 'Love' - its something that takes time, you cannot possibly be completely 'in love' with someone unless you know them - and know them well.

Yet there have been times when I have felt something perhaps akin to 'love' - an overwhelming closeness or connection with someone, while I didn't know them that well...

But then, I think there's a distinction between loving someone and being in love with someone...
Mmmm. Yes. Possibly.
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Post by koworld »

Bluey wrote: I have the same view on 'Love' - its something that takes time, you cannot possibly be completely 'in love' with someone unless you know them - and know them well.
Maybe I'm a soppy old soul but I fell deeply in love with Sarah the moment she sat down opposite me at the table in the pub for the first time.

We'd never met before.

She felt exactly the same.

That was a year ago this Wednesday.

Love happens.
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Post by Yak »

I think "love at first sight" is basically a physiological response, some vestige left over from presentient times. Of course it can feel powerful (I speak theoretically here, having never been prone to such responses with humans) and it can lead to infatuation, which often *is* mistaken for "love". Which is not to say that such a state cannot lead to what Trolley so appropriately calls Unity - if the underlying informational congruences are there to back up the initial physiological response, then sure, it could happen. The danger of course is that people sometimes don't bother doing the necessary communication to establish that.

And of course we use the word "love" in many different ways - I love my work, I love my mum, I love my dog, I love my sheepies, I live that spag Giles made me when I was in Italy, I love my mates, I love Pink Floyd - in every case here the word has different meanings. I think the ancient Greeks had the right idea when they separated out the concept of "love" into different specific categories... quoting from something I just found googling for it...
Eros, a word that came from the Latin god of hormones, was used to refer to sensual or sexual love. I eros deep dish pizza because it makes my taste buds feel good. In the same way, I eros the sensation of sea breeze in my face, my ragged Indiana Wesleyan sweat shirt, hot tubs, and sexual pleasure.

Phileo and storge describe friendship love and love for one's family. I storge my Mom and Dad. I storge my kid brother. I phileo my old college roommate.

Agape love is a willful, deliberate, I-choose-to-love-you love. (The Latin word is "caritas" from which we get "charity.") This love is not based on warm mushy feelings or even on a relationship. It is unconditional--just like the love Cubs fans have for their team even during its usual losing season.
Silly Americanized example, just the first one I happened across, but you get the idea.

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Post by korruptor »

lardygaz wrote:
koworld wrote:
lardygaz wrote:I know what you're saying but I really do love Bovril :)
Is that Kevin Bovril? Lives down St. Mary's way?
shhh biscs will hear :)
Inside every skate is a deep seated desire to be with a scummer... Although anyone you pick up down St Mary's is liable to be highly dodgy...
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Post by koworld »

Yak wrote:I think "love at first sight" is basically a physiological response, some vestige left over from presentient times. Of course it can feel powerful (I speak theoretically here, having never been prone to such responses with humans) and it can lead to infatuation, which often *is* mistaken for "love". Which is not to say that such a state cannot lead to what Trolley so appropriately calls Unity - if the underlying informational congruences are there to back up the initial physiological response, then sure, it could happen. The danger of course is that people sometimes don't bother doing the necessary communication to establish that.
That's an interesting perspective but not one I share. I know the difference between infatuation, lust and love that grows, and love that is instant. I'm not saying that a deep instant love is indestrucable though. The forces you mention can break any realationship.

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