Gay?

[Bluey]

Ever get told by someone that they love you? and then not known what to do about it?

I dare to say that "is very simple", if someone says you that and
you don't know "what to do" you don't love him ...

Actually, I meant by a person who you're not in a relationship with... Just out of the blue...

I mean "love" for sure can't be a "monodirectional thing" or
an expression you simply "drop there" to someone.

Well exactly...

But then, I think there's a distinction between loving someone and being in love with someone...

NO, here I disagree ...

Explain me what you mean then between "to love someone" and
"being in love" ... unless you are quoting two different meanings and
"misusing" the word "love" ...

In this way, I'd interpret it this way: "to love someone" = "I feel some
kind of affection for" ... "to be in love" = "love" (the "real" way) reciprocal
thing.

I'd say .. "better do not mix so 'easely' the two things .. "

There is a distinction .. can't be the same thing really ...

Er... yeah, exactly... They're different... That's what I said... To be in love and to love someone are very different things... I still love my ex... but I'm definitely not in love with him!

[Yak]

There was an interesting piece in New Scientist a couple of years ago entitled something like "Is love a mental illness?" in which the neurochemistry of individuals was monitored throughout the course of several months as they formed and pursued relationships, and the finding was, IIRC, that there is a distinct neurological change that occurs during the "infatuation period" - which they likened to a mild mental illness - which is probably the root cause of the feelings of "magic" and such - it's a mild neuromodified state not unlike a drug high .

However this state only lasts for a matter of a few months before wearing off; for it to return people have to look for a new pairing, in which case it happens all over again. I guess this makes some kind of sense in primitive evolutionary terms - spreading the old genes around being a hardwired biological imperative an' all.

I think problems arise where people make long-term commitments and plans when still in this mild state of "being off their tits" on the modified neurochemistry - it is proven that it does not last long, and if by the time it is over a more firm basis for a relationship has not been established - the informational congruence to which I referred before - then there will be trouble, and the partners are likely to drift apart and start looking for the next "high".

I guess it depends on what you;re looking for - if a committed relationship is what you seek, then it behooves you to do the communication and establish the groundwork before the chemical holiday is over .

\
(:-) - Yak
/

[Stone]

Fuck, look what I started

I'm not going to add anything else other than another vote for it to be archived, preferably with a text rendition of those pics, which killed my laptop twice

Stone

[Sickboy]

Yak - I hear ya. As anyone who's seen The Sopranos episode 'Amour Fou' knows , 'mad love' (illicit, spontaneous, dangerous, etc). is the most exciting and, if y'will, drug-like. That's the state that often kick-starts you into a 'relationship'.

It's what happens during the comedown period that's crucial. Once the Fog Of The New has lifted, that's where you finally get to take a look at each other with a bit more objectivity. It's the equivalent of being slumped on someone's floor after a heavy substance sesh and, as the dawn light starts to creep across the room, you realise how close - or distant - you are to the people you've shared the high with.

I'm still romantic enough to believe that some people are just 'made for each other', though. I've had a similar feeling with friends, too - where you meet someone for the first time and everything just clicks and you feel as if you've known each other all your life. Since we're social animals, it makes sense that good mates are just as important as good lovers.

[Yak]

I'm not trying to de-romanticize anything here, all I'm saying is that there are certain underlying mechanisms at work, and that if we understand a little bit about what is going on then we stand a much better chance of approaching such matters in a way which is more likely to succeed and which is less likely to fail and be painful to all involved, and I just think that is a Good Thing, is all .

Good honest intent and a little bit of understanding of the process surely increases the odds of success in such a "risky" endeavour .

\
(:-) - Yak
/

[Sickboy]

Of course it's always best to approach any human relationship with a bit of a fix on how the process ought to 'work', but you can never account for those good old maddening human unpredictables (altruism, perversity, self-hate, good liars, etc).

'sfunny. Most of my friends who have suffered bad break-ups never had much of a shagging-around period. Maybe you have to make yer mistakes so you can recognise when you're getting it wrong later on...

[koworld]

There was an interesting piece in New Scientist a couple of years ago entitled something like "Is love a mental illness?" in which the neurochemistry of individuals was monitored throughout the course of several months as they formed and pursued relationships, and the finding was, IIRC, that there is a distinct neurological change that occurs during the "infatuation period" - which they likened to a mild mental illness - which is probably the root cause of the feelings of "magic" and such - it's a mild neuromodified state not unlike a drug high .

Well you see that's probably true. In fact its pretty obvious that love/lust/infatuation (delete as applicable) promote big old rushes of endorphins and adrenaline. But I'm happier living in a world where the idea of magic isn't reduced to a theory on brain impulses, chemical balances and "infatuation periods".

And if it is all just chemicals why does it happen so infrequently? I've been out with plenty of people I've liked but very, very, very few that I've loved, or have loved me.

You're more cautious in such things Jeff and that's fine. If it means you spare somebody a lot of heartache then thats a good, positve thing. But it most assuredly isn't a reason to suggest that other people, with a different approach to relationships, are 'chemical fools'.

I think there's room for both types of character (and for many, many other combinations) in this world. Indeed I think it's a better place for having differences, unpredicatabilities and, yes, magical combinations in it.

[korruptor]

I do think there's a lot of value in learning lessons through stupidity, and promiscuity - as far as relationships are concerned. I was far too much of a dreamy romantic - busy getting shat on until I whored for a couple of years...

Like any thing in life, It's *far* easier to spot the signs in a relationship when you've been through them a few times. That's just experience for you...

[Dave]

However this state only lasts for a matter of a few months before wearing off; for it to return people have to look for a new pairing, in which case it happens all over again.

Bingo. There is a lot of evidence pointing towards that. Like I posted on the previous page, this is called Romantic Love (intimacy and passion), and it normally only lasts a few months at best.

Also, people typically yearn for memories of their first love. Why? When it is Romantic Love, people get this amazing high that they've never had before. Like you said Jeff, it's like a drug. But like drugs, nothing really beats your very first high. So, after you've been exposed to Romantic Love once, the second, third, forth, ect... times won't be as pleasurable. That's a big reason why people yearn for their first love.

[koworld]

I do think there's a lot of value in learning lessons through stupidity, and promiscuity - as far as relationships are concerned. I was far too much of a dreamy romantic - busy getting shat on until I whored for a couple of years...

Like any thing in life, It's *far* easier to spot the signs in a relationship when you've been through them a few times. That's just experience for you...

I changed my life after thishappened three years ago. I'm a better person for it having happened. It fucking hurt me like crazy but it didn't put me off from diving into relationships. We're human, fucking other humans, procreating, living is what we are all about. That is the meaning of life in its purest and most basic form.

But this is the wonderful thing; we've evolved an ability to rise above instinct and to be creative in our loving and living. Gay relationships, and many, many straight ones, have no real link to the procreation of the human race but that doesn't stop such relationships from being fulfilling, important and worthwhile. It is amazing that mankind has been able to make that true.

I would suggest that it is even magical.

[koworld]

Also, people typically yearn for memories of their first love. Why? When it is Romantic Love, people get this amazing high that they've never had before. Like you said Jeff, it's like a drug. But like drugs, nothing really beats your very first high. So, after you've been exposed to Romantic Love once, the second, third, forth, ect... times won't be as pleasurable. That's a big reason why people yearn for their first love.

No. That's just nostalgia.

[Dave]

Like any thing in life, It's *far* easier to spot the signs in a relationship when you've been through them a few times. That's just experience for you...

According to one of my Psychology teachers I once had, she stated that you can typically tell if two people will be compatible in a relationship within the first 15 minutes that they meet each other. Of course, this is EXTREMELY hard to do if you're one of those two people. But as a trained observer, it's easy as pie.

This probably has something about nervousness and being gitty when you first meet someone. You're so worried about impressing the other person and wanting them to like you that you become blind to obvious roadblocks you would have in a relationship.

[Dave]

Also, people typically yearn for memories of their first love. Why? When it is Romantic Love, people get this amazing high that they've never had before. Like you said Jeff, it's like a drug. But like drugs, nothing really beats your very first high. So, after you've been exposed to Romantic Love once, the second, third, forth, ect... times won't be as pleasurable. That's a big reason why people yearn for their first love.

No. That's just nostalgia.

That's part of it, and of course the reason I posted above is not the only reason why people think back to their first love. I guess I should have said it only applies to some people.

[koworld]

According to one of my Psychology teachers I once had, she stated that you can typically tell if two people will be compatible in a relationship within the first 15 minutes that they meet each other. Of course, this is EXTREMELY hard to do if you're one of those two people. But as a trained observer, it's easy as pie.

i'm not having a go at you Dave but that's just plain wrong. Life really, really, really isn't that simple. People change, people wear masks, we are all actors to some extent. No way on this earth can a trained observer make that judgement accuratly about two strangers meeting for the first time, and thank god for that. What a boring world this would be.

[gilesgoat]

I'm not trying to de-romanticize anything here, all I'm saying is that there are certain underlying mechanisms at work, and that if we understand a little bit about what is going on then we stand a much better chance of approaching such matters in a way which is more likely to succeed and which is less likely to fail and be painful to all involved, and I just think that is a Good Thing, is all .

Good honest intent and a little bit of understanding of the process surely increases the odds of success in such a "risky" endeavour .

\
(:-) - Yak
/

Right, I think that romanticism is a "great thing" when done "with mind
in it"

"Infatuation" or "feeling that some things are so fine" or "we are made
for each other" .. happends, we can even say "it's a good starting"
but then "realism" MUST enter in.

It's a little bit if you allow me a silly comparision when you go in a store
and you see a BIG wonderful well made plush so fluffly and nice that
makes you melt and immediately buy it, no matter what the price is
or that maybe you have no room to keep it where you live or that
maybe your parents could complain you to death for getting such a thing
or that is more than what you can afford.

Some people would get it straight on without considering not even one
of the other things ..

Well, this comparision is a little "silly" maybe not exactly focusing the
point but let's say that "the process" would be like "Ok, I love this plush"
now "Can I really spent this money ? Do I have it ? No ? Like it so much
I can work harder some way or sell something or save enough to get
it later ? Am I really so willing and so ready to do that ? Can maybe find
another place to keep it yet be able to enjoy it ? Should I move into
a bigger house ? Can I do it now ? Can I wait ?" ..

Nobody say you can't/should not get the plushie .. only "get it the
right way"

Let's say that when we are in a completely romantic mood what happends
is that we really tend to "close an eye" on "too many things" that are
for sure less or not at all romantic but that of course come out during
the "normal" life, when someone is a bit less romantic and maybe is
just returned back home after a hard work day ...

Understanding a little bit what's going on and seeing this "with a less
sweet eye and less blurred vision" is a little bit like starting to make
a rope fiber by fiber .. every little you understand and accept and feel
is ok for you adds more fiber to this rope ...

And the more you go on .. the more you feel this "rope" is so strong
that you know a simple blow of wind or more won't break it
you feel more and more comfortable more and more confident more
and more trusty .. and the doubts and such vanish slowly ... just leaving
clear bright light that can't be misunderstood ...

... and you have "the real vision" .. pure and bright ..

At this point you can be as much romantic as you like, as much soppy
as you like and you know that anything is simply "a good seasoning"
of something that is already tasty and good

And you know you are not kidding or faking or misunderstanding nor
someone else, nor yourself.

So good ...

"Good honest intent and a little bit of understanding of the process" .. yes
.. exactly that's what is needed ...

(besides, I am just speaking "by images" don't take "literally" some
"images I built here)