why are macs so goddam expensive???

Bog · Post by **Bog** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:06 pm 0

So like you I prefer application benchmarks as guides.

Especially because you can put two machines side-by-side, your own self, and see the results yourself.

Kemper_Boyd · Post by **Kemper_Boyd** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:04 am 0

pogo wrote: The only thing people have been quoting as faster is SPEC, but these are vendor run tests typically manipulated by companies, especially by processor vendors, to show their wares in the best possible light.

If you surf round some Mac forums today you'll almost certainly see a perfect
example of doublethink in action. The very same Mac fans who dismiss SPEC
for putting the G5 - PPC 970 in a bad light will be screaming and shouting about
the fantastic SPEC results for the IBM POWER5. When they lose it's a bad
benchmark, when they win it's a good one. (POWER5 is the basis for the next
gen G5/6 - PPC 975).

sty · Post by **sty** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:11 am 0

Bog wrote:
So like you I prefer application benchmarks as guides.
Especially because you can put two machines side-by-side, your own self, and see the results yourself.

That's what really matters in all honesty, and actually is probably the reason why for some people who just use their computer for day to day generic computing are able to switch to Mac. The combination of the user plus the computer for some userage patterns doesn't rely on raw Horsepower.

Similarly of course there are certain people and uses that a Mac is still inferior for, things like Bog's redering etc.

For the record by the way, I love these conversations when done properly and I think they are valuable to us people on YakYak to keep on top of developments, just so long as we keep it friendly and sane, ie. stick to the facts and informed opinion.

I'm no expert on PC technology these days so it is useful for me to keep up with the developments, similarly my Mac is getting a bit long in the tooth so it is useful to hear about the developments at the high end.

Finally one thing that gets discussed here is real experience of machines rather than a technical benchtest ( arstechnica, /. etc.) or manufacturers manufactured benchmarks

(I was involved in some benchmarking at Silicon Graphics, and as you all might guess manufacturers work very hard at benchmarking, we had dedicated staff in all countries working on them, also you can safely assume that a leading manufacturer isn't going to post benchmark results that don't make them look good)

Anyway keep the useful insight flowing if there is anymore to be had

mISTER_jOHNNO · Post by **mISTER_jOHNNO** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:24 am 0

This thread seems like an articualate version of playground conversations
we used to have 20 years ago about the C64 and Spectrum..

BTW..that Opteron mobo looks the business.. If I had the cash.. a fully
loaded one of those sat on my desk in a windowed Lian Li full tower ..with four
great big 750g copper Gigabyte coolers with blue neons and a nice wiring job
would have a lot more tart appeal to me than a Mac..

xav · Post by **xav** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:12 am 0

skab wrote:Never understood that one-button-fetish myself. I never used the one-button Pro Mouse. And a 2nd button on a trackpad wouldn't hurt either. Maybe they could introduce 2 or 3 button mice and trackpads in the pro-line PowerBooks and keep the "idiot user" one-button thing on the consumer level machines. Another reason to get a PB instead of an iBook, with the PB being a far more expensive machine, would be quite good for Apple...

Ooh, nice idea. So it'll never happen

skab wrote: Hm. I've got a German keyboard layout here, and I can't see what's so different to a normal MF2-layout-KB.

I realised today that I should probably have disclosed a little more information: my gf's PowerBook is the 12" version, so the keyboard layout will obviously be different to the desktop keyboards, and probably different to the larger laptops as well.

Being a programming type, with a penchant for the command line, and working on PHP/HTML stuff at home, the keys which have caused me most grief are things like /, \, ~, `, | and worst of all, #. I'd just prefer to see these keys in a similar place to the PC laptops (and desktops) that I've used.

It's not the end of the world, and I'd buy a PowerBook if it had a second mouse button, regardless of the keyboard layout issues, but it just adds another minor hurdle to me being able to use the PB as easily as I can drive my current Linux laptop.

skab · Post by **skab** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:30 am 0

Xav wrote:I realised today that I should probably have disclosed a little more information: my gf's PowerBook is the 12" version, so the keyboard layout will obviously be different to the desktop keyboards, and probably different to the larger laptops as well.

No, the keyboard on the 12" is exactly the same as on the 15" and 17". At least over here. Weird. The small cursor keys are annoying, but the rest is just... normal. Here.

radio · Post by **radio** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:44 pm 0

I reckon they're more expensive 'cos apple must have a whole heap of people to pay.

I dont know to much about them, but if all their hardware people do all the hardware, or even some of the hardware r+d, and ontop of that theres the code monkeys to pay. (and the artiss/designers for everything too, they sure as hell dont come cheap) I reckon that, whilst compared to pc's the prices are big, theyre pretty justified. theres so many different companies working on pc tech that they can charge less because they only do 1 thing, apple does lots and has to get the money pretty much all from machine sales.

at least thats my guess.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:53 pm 0

sty wrote: For the record by the way, I love these conversations when done properly and I think they are valuable to us people on YakYak to keep on top of developments, just so long as we keep it friendly and sane, ie. stick to the facts and informed opinion.

Me too!
I'm definitely of the "don't want hassle, don't care about the horsepower" school of computing. Windows gives me hassle, if Mac and OSX is able to offer me less hassle, I'm willing to pay more for it, even if I'm technically getting less bang for my buck. I mean, why try to keep up with Moore's law?

That's my thoughts at the moment.

GeeZa · Post by **GeeZa** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:28 pm 0

kalmar wrote:That's my thoughts at the moment.

And I agree. The modular design of PCs is both a blessing and a curse. I was always worried about upgrading, 350 notes for the latest Geforce, 250 notes for the next CPU etc. etc. I just got fed up with it, esp. as it was mostly driven by games which consoles now satisfy for me with lower expense and less hassle.

I will hold my hand up and admit I've just this morning bought a 200Gb Firewire800 disk-drive and 512Mb of RAM for the Powerbook. But that should be my last ever upgrade of this machine, unless I want to chain more drives of course.