Hurricane Thread

[Matrixxx]

There are a lot of people here bothered by those deaths.

Bill

I can see that Bill, sorry again.

How do you know that? I presume you aren't in America. A lot of people in the US are against the war, are sad that it is still going on, don't know why it is still going on, and just want it to be over with.

I think you should be directing your hatred at the American government, and possibly at the proportion of the populace that voted them back in, but probably not at the entire nation.

Quite right, im not., and glad of it. As I stated before, I used the word COUNTRY not PEOPLE, thus I am extolling my anger AT the country at large and its government. I just find It hard to categtorise and stereotype the residents as "none voted for X person"... You cant pick and chose like that.

I just find it hard to find sympathy for a nation that spends its time and money attacking others for their resources, inability to be civilised (the you cant be trusted with nuclear power but we can attitude, even though this is the country that built and first used the damn things), and their economic well being (based on our example because your way of life is crap in comparrison).

As you say not everybody in the USA voted for Bush, lots didn't, and lots of Americans are still opposed to his regime - including my friends in Louisiana. Why bring Iraq into this? I may not mourn when 50 Iraqis die, but at least I don't go and ridicule the survivours on the internet.

At what point have i ridiculed the residents of New Orleans ? Im not the one who finds a flag on a pile of rubble more important than finding help, food, fresh drinking water, financial help and shelter. Ya ? ya see where im coming from now ? its like, their priorities are so totally fucked up !!

Flags come second - peoples well being and safety come first.

[PaulEMoz]

How do you know that? I presume you aren't in America. A lot of people in the US are against the war, are sad that it is still going on, don't know why it is still going on, and just want it to be over with.

I think you should be directing your hatred at the American government, and possibly at the proportion of the populace that voted them back in, but probably not at the entire nation.

I just find it hard to find sympathy for a nation that spends its time and money attacking others for their resources, inability to be civilised (the you cant be trusted with nuclear power but we can attitude, even though this is the country that built and first used the damn things), and their economic well being (based on our example because your way of life is crap in comparrison).

I'm English, by the way. I just happen to live in the US, and realise that not every single person here is identical. Something you apparently fail to realise, by lumping every single one of them into the same category.

[Matrixxx]

Fella, you can have £50... Americans wanting compassion ? HAH - the only think I mourn about New Orleans is the loss to the rather excellent music lifestyle there and the amazing carnivals.

I have no compassion for a country who make it their business to invade other countries "because they can" and on unjustified, unrealised reasons. Note I said "Country" there. Of course i feel for the innocents, Id be stupid not to, but you also cant pretend that theres a lot of Anti-American feeling out in the real world. I have a lot of American friends, but I also have a growing hatred of America.

Matrix,
It's not about the country, it's not about New Orleans, with or without beautiful Carnivals, it's about people, human beings that need to receive compassion. As a newspaper article said yesterday the U.S. is a country of deep contrasts. The rich evacuated the areas pretty fast, they'll loose some money but they'll be OK, the middle class who could afford last minute tickets totalling at least 3,000.00 also left. Who was left behing were the poor and the low-middle class, and like in the other big cities there's lots of them. Those are the ones now having to be evacuated from the dome.
The rich and the middle class is not who the Red Cross will be helping, those have private insurances, know how to use the FEMA funds, know how to deduct every penney they'll loose in their taxes, etc, etc. It's the poor, the ones who may have a little old house, or rented, who had jobs in the destroyed businesses, and lived from pay check to pay check, those are the ones who depend on charity right now. Yes, the U.S. as a country, the government, the more educated voters are maybe to blame for a nation that lacks so much in social sevices and in anything to support people who really need it but those are not the people left in New Orleans.

Much better put than my text.. but essentially the same message... help first, flags of patriotism later.

[Matrixxx]

@ Paul:

"I'm English, by the way. I just happen to live in the US, and realise that not every single person here is identical. Something you apparently fail to realise, by lumping every single one of them into the same category."


So youre saying that I should express a split opinion ? that some deserve what happened and others dont ? thats nonsense. Look, nature fucked the US up, the US is busy fucking other places up.

Doesnt get much simpler. you also might want to re-read some of my text, I think you may have missed some important points. So I dont see why a flag is more important than finding help, food, shelter etc... ok, well, if you do, you do... I personally dont.

[PaulEMoz]

you also might want to re-read some of my text, I think

I don't want to, thanks. I've read it and found most of it pretty horrible the first time around. No need to confirm it.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

[Matrixxx]

Fair do's, upto you, but do try not to pull me up incorrectly on things I have already covered; quoting out of context and without the supporting text either above, at the sides, or below.

Cheers.

[PaulEMoz]

Fair do's, upto you, but do try not to pull me up incorrectly on things I have already covered; quoting out of context and without the supporting text either above, at the sides, or below.

Cheers.

I didn't do any such thing. I took one quote, and commented on it. I chose not to comment on the rest, and will choose not to comment on anything else in this thread from now on, either. It's not really to my liking.

Plenty for everyone else to discuss, though.

[JB Lars]

Okay, you can let the flag shit go now. It was just a wire photo. There's no political rallies going on along the Gulf coast today. Nobody - and I'll guarantee it, nobody - is looking for flags first, survival later. Katrina's survivors aren't ignoring the hierarchy of needs in order to go wave the red, white and blue. Someone found a flag, a photog was there. It made for an eye-catching image. That's all. But by beating that dead horse and claiming that those left in the disaster area are more interested in blind patriotism than aid to other victims, you ARE ridiculing the survivors, despite your claims otherwise.

Listen, I know the USA isn't popular around the world, and our gov't is doing things we're not all proud of. This isn't about that. This is about a natural disaster and the devastated lives that result. Leave the Yank-bashing alone for a day, huh? If your issue is with the government, not the citizens, then let your actions back that up.

Fuck it, who'm I kidding? You're an anti-American bigot, thinly veiled anti-Semite, a troll, and just a general douchebag. Go fuck yourself.

[jshawnd]

One thing I've always appreciated about this forum is the sympathy given whenever a disaster of some sort occurs. Whether it's a country being bombed, a civilian caught in the crossfire, a tornado, a typhoon, a snowstorm, a hurricane... the responses in this forum are a reassurance to me that someone cares, and I'm briefly reminded that the internet can be a truly wonderful place.

Having not read the forum since Sunday, I notice a thread on the hurricane. And I read this:

Who cares what happens to Southerners?

[Fella, you can have £50... Americans wanting compassion ? HAH - the only think I mourn about New Orleans is the loss to the rather excellent music lifestyle there and the amazing carnivals.

Now, without responding to this directly, have either of you actually been there? Beyond the touristy part of New Orleans, it's a very poor, rather depressing place. Once you leave the French Quarter, you'll find some very dilapidated neighborhoods, and when you head towards the old plantations, you'll see modern day shanty towns, filled with the descendants of sharecroppers. These people likely lost what little they had. I seriously doubt they had insurance. These are the people that don't really register with much of the country, and they likely won't be mentioned much in the media coverage (because the news channels know we'd rather see the places we recognize and the big McMansions lining the coast).

Add to this that most shelters won't accept pets.

All I'm saying is, have some sympathy.

[Matrixxx]

Anti Semite - LMFAO where do you get this shit !!

I made 1 comment about a flag.... 1 comment. So you dont like your country and you dont like people saying so. Big deal lol... you live there, not me, im fortunate enough not to.

"You're an anti-American bigot, thinly veiled anti-Semite, a troll, and just a general douchebag. Go fuck yourself."

Anti-american ive already admited to. The pointless death of a friend lead me to feel that way.... The rest youre entitled to. Mind If I ask, are you jewish ? (you dont have to answer that if you dont want to, i respect your privacy and point of view, despite the profanity and pointless namecalling) just so i know where that comment comes from ? Thanks... I didnt attack jews here ? Did I ? or is simply stating fact & history a sin too ?

Did I say I hated jews ? or did I say it was a sympathy vote based on what jews do (which is look for the sympathy vote, and deny the holocaust they created on africa didnt exist because they are labelled sub-human and inferior). If theres one people on this planet I DO have sympathy for, its Africans - they always get the shit end of the wedge.

So ya dont like it - ok, thats cool too. I dont write history, I just comment on it in defence of my point of view. You made a big deal of the flag and anti-semetism, not me All I said was it was a daft Idea when there are more urgent concerns. Period. Scream about it all ya like, It doesnt change anything.

Since we ARE talking about jews (or should i be more accurate and say Isrelites)?... a lot of people I know had sympathy for them when they were recently ousted from the Gaza strip.... WHY - they occupied it in the first place. They were given months (and cash) to leave. When they occupied it, they gave the palestinians just 4 hours to pack up and go.... and no cash.

So sympathy ? no, no sympathy, doesnt mean I hate em... time to get facts straight and stop mouthing off, you may realise why I say what I say.

Consider cause and effect, the world keeps turning. Same news, different names. If bully 1 for example hits weekling 2 all his schooldays - and that weekling gets tough and puts bull1 in hospital years later - no I have no sympathy for him at all. Im amazed I even have to cite example to get my point across.

Ive covered the political side, the religious side (no bias), the economic side, and the just plain daft side. Ok, so you dont agree, thats your perogative. But insults like this (You're an anti-American bigot, thinly veiled anti-Semite, a troll, and just a general douchebag. Go fuck yourself.) are not necessary - k. I merely have a different view to you, if youre so closed minded that you cant respect that - thats not my issue to deal with.

[Matrixxx]

One thing I've always appreciated about this forum is the sympathy given whenever a disaster of some sort occurs. Whether it's a country being bombed, a civilian caught in the crossfire, a tornado, a typhoon, a snowstorm, a hurricane... the responses in this forum are a reassurance to me that someone cares, and I'm briefly reminded that the internet can be a truly wonderful place.

Having not read the forum since Sunday, I notice a thread on the hurricane. And I read this:

Who cares what happens to Southerners?

[Fella, you can have £50... Americans wanting compassion ? HAH - the only think I mourn about New Orleans is the loss to the rather excellent music lifestyle there and the amazing carnivals.

Now, without responding to this directly, have either of you actually been there? Beyond the touristy part of New Orleans, it's a very poor, rather depressing place. Once you leave the French Quarter, you'll find some very dilapidated neighborhoods, and when you head towards the old plantations, you'll see modern day shanty towns, filled with the descendants of sharecroppers. These people likely lost what little they had. I seriously doubt they had insurance. These are the people that don't really register with much of the country, and they likely won't be mentioned much in the media coverage (because the news channels know we'd rather see the places we recognize and the big McMansions lining the coast).

Add to this that most shelters won't accept pets.

All I'm saying is, have some sympathy.

Oh I have plenty of sympathy. Im not a stone..... (not the yak member before that kicks off a stink too), It goes where its deserved. Which is Ethiopia & Africa (among others). Of course I feel for the poor, the needy, etc - but I also see the fucked up-ness of it.

Hurricane coming and no dogs allowed.. I thought that was only on film (The Day After Tomorrow), BALMY - building a home in a flood basin - BALMY - yadda yadda yadda.... and everything already covered.

Every city has its poor, its homeless, and I DO feel for them... to a degree (though its the governments job to deal with it, and they could if they werent so busy telling the rest of the planet how to live) - everyone has legs, and has had for thousands of years before the SUV was invnted.

If you chose to live in a danger zone, you chose to accept the danger. Thats choice. Africans have no choice, no transport, no chance of hitching a lift north and no hope of walking it. A people with close to no hope, a land where the mortality rate is excessive and they are ravaged by plague, hunger and drought in an arrid landscape barely able to support life.

YES the people of New Orleans have been through a tough event. but they are alive.... they have food stocks, water (if I dare mention that without being called crass), support organisations helping, buildings instead of mud huts or holes in the ground. in the big scheme of things this is a mere inconveience (not trying to belittle the event either), because the USA has the structure in place to deal with it. And thats a LOT more than other countries have.

Sorry if this comes across as bleating, but im trying to make the contrast very clear. Some people, even in crisis and danger dont know when they are well off.

And since it's been brought up twice, no, I havent been there. I'd love to see it one day - and a lot more - when it feels like a safe place to be. Id vacation there - but I wouldnt live there for all the tea in china, and for the record, Britain aint exactly "all that" either. Sorry.

The day i have no ties here.... and I have the opportunity - I'm outta this tory-ruined shithole, selling up and moving to a decent country.

[Matrixxx]

Maybe I need councelling, maybe I need a smack in the mouth, maybe I needed to get it off my chest too. I have strong views, especially regarding, america.

Far from a rant, but Ive been very clear, and as clear as I could be without trying to be too insulting. Tact isnt my strong point, so I repeat, I appologise if my views and concerns upset people, but thats just the way i see it.

I hope this thread can move on now. And for god's sake, nobody mention the bloody flag.

[gravy]

I have no compassion for a country who make it their business to invade other countries "because they can" and on unjustified, unrealised reasons. Note I said "Country" there. Of course i feel for the innocents, Id be stupid not to, but you also cant pretend that theres a lot of Anti-American feeling out in the real world. I have a lot of American friends, but I also have a growing hatred of America.

This is more about a bunch of people who've lost their lives and homes because of complete arbitary event.

Yeah you have issues with America. Other people do as well.

If that means the only contribution you can make to this thread is pissing on people who've gone through a bit of an ordeal then don't post in it. It's not appropriate or relevent.

[5th Earth]

Regarding the whole "6 feet below sea level thing", a more detailed explanation.

New Orleans became a major city because it was basically a double port--it had direct access to the Gulf of Mexico and thus the Atlantic Ocean, and being situated on the Mississippi River, it had direct water access to most of the interior of the USA. A good recipe for economic development.

Unfortunately, New Orleans is built in what is called the Mississippi Delta, which is a vast triangular region of marshes, swamplands, and bayous, which the Mississippi more or less drains through. The river itself changes route all the time, its path snapping back and forth across the delta like a whip as bits of the coastline get carried into the ocean and bits of the interior get carried into the coastline. It's a very dynamic region.

New Orleans is a major town because it's situated on the Mississippi river--which changes location by hundreds of miles on a regular basis. If the river moves, then New Orleans dies--it loses river access to the US interior, and there will no longer be a clear route the ocean. A thriving port will turn into a city located in an incovinient swamp.

So they build dams. They build dams, and berms, and levees, and ditches, and do everything in their power to keep the river flowing down one path, through the city, when it normally would have changed route decades ago. Now the river stretches far out past the delta, significantly higher than the land around it, but levees keeping it confined until it's well into the ocean. Meanwhile, the land around it keeps sinking lower and lower, as it's not being built up by sediment washed in by the river, and because (as mentioned earlier) constantly pumping out the city has lowered the water table until the ground has started collapsing under it.

Now the problem is much larger than losing economic benefits. When the levees break, New Orleans will be completely destroyed, as effectively as if someone carpetbombed it.

One way or another, New Orleans is doomed--I have deepest sympathy for anyone whose homes or livlihoods are lost, but it's a battle that will be lost. We can't hold back the river forever. The only question is when.

[Rambozo]

Yeah you have issues with America.

I have to live here. As an American I can authoritatively say that those of us with IQs above the abhorrent Southern average are quietly pleased with this turn of events. A hurricane causing loss of life is a tragedy, but a country with free thinking intelligent citizens being silenced and controlled by the conservative religious masses is a tragedy of a much larger scale.

You'd think they would remember why we fled from Britain in the first place....