Hurricane Thread

[tufty]

I also have issues with "America". I don't like the overtly religious, flagwaving, tubthumping, "American" approach to internal and foreign policy. I hope and pray that it ends. However...

The poor fuckers in New Orleans and the whole surrounding area deserve sympathy and support. They are human beings, no matter what their politics, race or creed. And, as has been pointed out, they are, largely speaking, the poor. The rich (and even the middle class) will be paid back by their insurance eventually, but the poor get to lose everything, then sit around in the remains of their flooded homes wondering where it all went wrong.

They may have been the poor and uneducated fuckwits that helped Bush and Co. get elected, but that does not matter. Compare and contrast the following 2 statements:

"Hah! You deserved that fucking hurricane, you southern, Bush voting cunt! Hope you're enjoying it. How's that for some righteous payback?"

"Hah! You deserve HIV, you god-hating liberal fag! Hope you're enjoying it. How's that for some righteous payback?"

I live in France. In the last election, nearly 20% of the population voted for an extreme right wing fanatic. Now, my nephew was one of those. He's a not-terribly-well-off worker in the building sector. Voting Le Pen doesn't make him a fascist, it makes him ill-informed and under-educated. And when his house burned down last winter, people in the village, from both sides of the political spectrum, myself included, rallied round him and his family. There was a distinct lack of "Hah, freeze to death, you right wing cocksocket!"

I honestly fail to understand anyone who has no sympathy for the poor fuckers wading through the south today. You've obviously never seen anyone who's lost everything. I'd wish a similar experience on you, only I can't.

cunts.

Simon

[tufty]

As an American I can authoritatively say that those of us with IQs above the abhorrent Southern average are quietly pleased with this turn of events.

In that case, I think we can authoritatively say it has been proved that IQ is not equal to common sense or basic human decency.

Simon

[Matrixxx]

Ok, some good informational content there, and some fair points. However, I feel that everbody is missing a key piece of information. Allow me to piece it together.

1. We all know that America is the worlds number 1 polluter.
2. We all kow Bush wouldnt join in with the whole Keyoto thing to help save the planet.
3. Pollution causes the hole in the ozone layer to get bigger.
4. Bigger hole = faster melting of ICE and warmer water.
5. More water means higher sea levels.
6. Warmer water in the Gulf of Mexico is CATASTROPHIC if a hurricane passes over one of those huge Edy's.
7. Its a near certainty that this will happen again because of this chain of events.
8. America is unwilling to even help itself or it would sign Keyoto and kurb use of oil in favour of more eco-friendly solutions & get rid of gas hungry vehicles.

So my point, is, why help America, when it doesnt give a fig about helping itself ? Youre going to need higher levy's, stronger dams, more of them, better defences if you are to try and prevent this happening again. For that you need money - and the money is dedicated to rebuilding other countries at the moment... can you all see where im' coming from NOW ? or is it still blind to you ?

I believe however that these inactions will force the political hand. The gulf of Mexico is home to about a third of US oil sources. Once those lands are flooded and seas too violent to drill, other sources will have to be found to satiate the need, or there will be an inevitable change in powersource as oil becomes unaffordable.

Take a look. Just for a sec. 1 Hurricane hits, its a class 4, petrol goes up due to lack of availability for a few days..... a few days.... what happens when its months, years ? Long term folks.... Time to make a change in how you live TODAY. Everytime you drive that SUV, consider what the pollution does, youre actually contributing to the next catastrophic event; but hey, thats just me talking, and I know jack-shit right.


@ Tufty : "You've obviously never seen anyone who's lost everything. I'd wish a similar experience on you, only I can't."

- What a nice sentiment. Tell ya what, next time I head over to Africa with aid packs you can tag along. I'll show you people who have lost EVERYTHING. Maybe then you'll get some sense of perspective, (yeah, i do my part too).

[Orava]

Ok, some good informational content there, and some fair points. However, I feel that everbody is missing a key piece of information.

All that is happened (sad as it is) is supportive of the Gaia Theory.

An example:

Burning fossil fuels adds co2 to the atmosphere, causing global warming.

Global warming causes raising sea levels (mostly due to thermal expansion) and more storms and more intense storms (See about the 2005 hurricane season).

Storms wipe out the oil industry in the Gulf of Mexico.

A correction of sorts.

[kalmar]

I also have issues with "America". I don't like the overtly religious, flagwaving, tubthumping, "American" approach to internal and foreign policy. I hope and pray that it ends. However...

The poor fuckers in New Orleans and the whole surrounding area deserve sympathy and support. They are human beings, no matter what their politics, race or creed. And, as has been pointed out, they are, largely speaking, the poor. The rich (and even the middle class) will be paid back by their insurance eventually, but the poor get to lose everything, then sit around in the remains of their flooded homes wondering where it all went wrong.

Yup. Poor, and black. I was reading that in New Orleans, the height of your home below sea level is inversely proportional to your wealth.

These people didn't "deserve it", but even saying that of those who (by whatever standard) did, is different from not feeling sorry for their predicament.

Although, if the storm had taken out W's ranch, you'd really find me laughing.

[Matrixxx]

Youre right orava, it is sad.... a terrible event. But I believe that if we all "do our bit" instead of having the self-centred "ill do as I please" mentality, the world would be a much better, and healthier place. I dont know what it is about americans... it's like, they feel they are invulnerable or something ? like the rest of the world isnt happening, or, "that will never happen to me in my lifetime" kind of thing. So they continue to abuse the world both at home and away.

The drunk that wont listen to his doctor and screws up his kidney. The fat kid who eats 40 candy bars a day and expects to have a decent body and decent teeth. The smoker who doesnt quit until he's told he has cancer simply because he enjoys what he does.

Perspective means so much. I mean, look, we know the weather will get worse. we know there will be more hurricaines, more powerful and in greater number, we know about rising sea levels and the changing climate. We also know full well that places like New Orleans are at greater risk than ever before. So what will they do now ? Abandon the basin and start a new - or repair evenything and carry on living in the same dangerous place waiting on the next event so we can all have some more sympathy ? and try not to be shouted at simply because at some point somebody said "told you so".

Common sense goes a long way if it's used properly. Some tough decisions need to be made. Would it be cheaper and better to relocate north and abandon New Orleans ? or rebuild and await what is inevitably coming, finally forced out by nature itself with the loss of many millions of lives though sheer defiance and stupidity. America is on its own self-destructive path, it doesnt need / shouldnt need me to point it out, especially to those who live there.

[kalmar]

One thing that should become apparent soon, is "where are all the generators?". Where are the choppers, and heavy duty trucks. Where are the troops to sort this mess out?

We know where Bush is today. But that's not too helpful:

[Matrixxx]

Oohh, a presidential seal on the guitar. That must have cost a pretty penny.

Have you noticed that whenever a serious "event" has happened in the Uk & US this year, the leaders are always "on holiday" ? smiling at the camera for us, just so we kow they are safe and having a good time.

Although fair do's to Bush, he did fly back for 1 day to defend staying in Iraq... errr ? why, its a bit late in the day really.... OH Ya !! Mission accomplished. Durrrrr.

[tufty]

@ Tufty : "You've obviously never seen anyone who's lost everything. I'd wish a similar experience on you, only I can't."

- What a nice sentiment. Tell ya what, next time I head over to Africa with aid packs you can tag along. I'll show you people who have lost EVERYTHING. Maybe then you'll get some sense of perspective, (yeah, i do my part too).

Maybe I phrased that badly. The "only I can't" bit was supposed to read along the lines of "but I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy, let alone anyone here"

For what it's worth, I don't think my sense of perspective is too badly fucked up. After all, I'm not the one preaching sympathy for the plight of disaster-struck africans while gloating over the plight of disaster-struck Americans.

Simon

[Matrixxx]

Im not gloating, or languishing in it either, but I do think some stupid decisions were made in the past, I think they dont learn by their own mistakes and I think they will make bad decisions again.

Americans by nature are their own worst enemy imho. thats why I have little sympathy - they seem to think its some incredibly tough macho act of defiance to put themselves in harms way, then start screaming when nature kicks them in the ass.

[jshawnd]

As an American I can authoritatively say that those of us with IQs above the abhorrent Southern average are quietly pleased with this turn of events.

In that case, I think we can authoritatively say it has been proved that IQ is not equal to common sense or basic human decency.

Simon

I think "this turn of events" refers to foreigners becoming increasingly vocal with their displeasure over American policy; (he's not talking about the hurricane)...would appreciate some clarification, though.

[tufty]

As an American I can authoritatively say that those of us with IQs above the abhorrent Southern average are quietly pleased with this turn of events.

In that case, I think we can authoritatively say it has been proved that IQ is not equal to common sense or basic human decency.

Simon

I think "this turn of events" refers to foreigners becoming increasingly vocal with their displeasure over American policy; (he's not talking about the hurricane)...would appreciate some clarification, though.

On rereading the original message, you're right, there is a certain amount of ambiguity, and with an open mind one might read it as being WRT foreign attitude to US foreign policy (like that will make the blindest bit of fucking difference anyway, but hey). On the other hand, this little gem from the Abortion thread should explain why I read it the other way...

and I personally clapped with glee when Hurricane Katria wiped out dozens of Southerners earlier this week.

Simon

[Dvorak]

What a disgusting thread this is.

Matrix and Rambozo, please ignore me in the future like I will ignore you.
I'm fed up with your sick inhuman teenage angst hate drivel.

And maybe you want to reconsider your membership of this place.

[Matrixxx]

No my account is just fine. And where would we be if we all agreed eh, nothing to discuss. We could sit around all day talking about how splendid our fluffy threads are

Grow up m8. Not everybody on the planet thinks as you do or controversy wouldnt exist. I appreciate you dissagree and i'll certainly follow your advice, but do try to keep an open mind and see things from other peoples point of view from time to time.

Theres no chips on any shoulders, only a difference of opinion and the childish "ignore" option for whose who arent adult enough to cope with it.

[Rod_S]

Some interesting shots I noticed on another forum:







This one is amazing, the light source is sunlight from a hole in the roof of the Superdome where all the refugees are staying.