The Dr Who thread

Inane baanter or words of wisdom - you decide...
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Darkflame
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Post by Darkflame »

The TARDIS does not allow the Doctor to ever return to the exact same place and time.
but he didnt have too :-/
He goes ver the mirror.
Stays there.

Rose then comes though the tardis to pick him up.

The tardis is thus only in the place once, and theres no chance of Dr bumping into himself whatsoever.
======

As for real paradox theorys;
Paradoxs dont happen. Basic laws of heat and physics mean that even if time travel is possible the only timelines that would exist (for more then an infintely small amount of time) are the "stable" ones.
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Post by Snakey »

Darkflame wrote:Rose then comes though the tardis to pick him up.
Entirely different thing. They were talking about using the tardis to go rescue the woman, not about rescuing the Doctor.

Rose doesn't know HOW to use the Tardis. Last ep of last season, it was the Tardis doing all the work, not Rose - and that whole incident has been completely wiped from her memory, anyway.
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Post by Stuart B »

I think it got touched on inthe episode, but neither Rose nor Mickey have any idea how to fly the thing..

She only managed it in The Parting of the Ways by merging with the thing, which was called back on in The Christmas Invasion as to why she simply couldn't do it again... I think her response was something along the lines of "I can't, or I might end up destroying the universe or something..."
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Post by Darkflame »

I was stateing merely the reason why they didnt use the Tardis AT ALL in the eppisode, aside from s/e, made no sense.
eg.The whole drama of him "stuck there", was rather forced considering there wasnt an explanation given as to why the tardis couldnt have been used.

Also, the tardis can be programed/timed surely?

For that mater, theres no paradox in using the tardis *once* to get there, and then leave is there?
I understand multiple times is a no-no.
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Post by Stuart B »

Darkflame wrote: Also, the tardis can be programed/timed surely?
Dammit, now for some bizarre reason I realy want a TARDIS egg timer... I smell a licensing deal!
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Post by Snakey »

Darkflame wrote:there wasnt an explanation given as to why the tardis couldnt have been used.
So Mickey saying that neither him nor Rose knew how isn't good enough?
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Post by Governmentyard »

arron wrote: And as he is now only a few incarnations from the end
Isn't that an enforced thing? Enforced by the timelords... who are all dead?

The things I'm mulling over when not marvelling at how much each of these episodes imporves on the last are these:

1: Mme Pompadour looks through the 'open door' into the Doctor's head and then begins referring to him as an 'angel' as well as a timelord. Is this simply metaphor?

2: Are the rules that governed Timelord shenanigins still enforced somehow or does the Doctor have carte balnche to do whatever he pleases now he's alone in the universe, hence his little romantic moments and more assured vigilante attitude (see Tony Head face-off)?

It appears to me that Ecclestone's doctor was necessarily short - he was a lost being, searching for a way forward from a point of utter loneliness and despair, drawn to the place he was always more likely to call home even than his own planet. Then after the whole rose/tardis stuff he regenerates and this new doctor (who is clearly still settling into the new personality, in a less hammy version of the early Colin Baker episodes) has an altogether reinvigorated stance on the wrong-writing moral crusade stuff. Or perhaps there's some baggage from the time wars and pre-rose era that we'll find out about over the next couple of series?

I don't know. I wasn't even thinking about it until now... I'm enjoying the show too much. The last two eps have had me on the edge of my seat with suspense, laughing out loud, grinning like an Ecclestone and wiping away a tear in equal measure. I was actually willing the Doctor to spend his days with the fit bord, then hide away for long enough to stow away on the Tardis during the events of the last episode, jumping out of a tardis cupboard at the end and cracking a joke about his 3000 years of solitude suffered in order to have a nice fit bird. Didn't happen though, so I felt dead sad.

These threads make me think to much.
Last edited by Governmentyard on Sun May 07, 2006 11:20 pm 0, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by DutchLlama »

KlaxonCow wrote:The TARDIS does not allow the Doctor to ever return to the exact same place and time.
Does this mean that if he has been to lets say Oxford Street, London on 10 June 1910 that he can never travel to that city on that date again? Or not to the *exact* spot? If not the could just program the Tardis to set him down 50 metres from the other Tardis. Then he could still meet his former incarnation. Even if he sets it down 20 kms away then he could still travel by conventional means to the spot where his counterpart is. Or he could arrive an earlier date if the distance is too far to be crossed within the same day. There's no way to block it unless a day could not be reused on a certain planet (but heck then there are alway spaceships he could use). Seems to me that there are countless ways to let make use of this plotwise. :wink:
KlaxonCow wrote:So, you see, the Doctor is smarter than Doc Brown in Back to the Future because the Timelords thought of this problem and built their time machines in such a way as to stop the bullshit happening.
The Timelords had way more experience with it, they probably also had their share of fuckups in the early days. And Doc Brown was planning to go back himself but the Lybian terrorists caused Marty to accidentily go back in time. He was way more cautious and aware of the risks of a temporal paradox than Marty, but had to help him when he screwed things up.

BTW there is a theory in science fiction that time travellers themselves become part of history. If that wouldn't be the case then time travel should never be attempted. Because even the smallest action by a time traveller would change history. Their actual being there makes history different. If they e.g. ask someone on the street where so and so address is, that is a history changing event. Because the delay which that person experience causes him to be somewhere else from then on, than would be the case if he wasn't stopped for a question. He could e.g. be killed by a bus or go home and find his wife kissing someone else, causing him to kill her and himself. Or he could be saved from being killed or he would not kill his wife and himself, which would be major history changing effects. As each person's live influences the lives of others, no matter how unimportant they are in society.
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Post by Fil »

I liked the episode and couldn't give the slightest toss about all the little tiny details
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Post by Driller »

One thing that has had me thinking is the following:

If Gallifreyan time travel power stems from their mastery of the Eye of Harmony, what happened when their civilisation was wiped out? Rassilon allegedly usurped Omega's stellar manipulation device (the Hand of Omega) and tied the Gallifreyans power (and destiny) to a black hole. If we are to believe that the Daleks and the Timelords wiped each other out in the great war, does this mean that the Eye of Harmony is still controlling time? Rather like the Pattern in Roger Zelazny's "Amber" series, Rassilon anchored our universe of time to the Eye. Does this mean that time is unravelling or that it is now easier for another race to take control?

AKAIK, Timelords were the first race to perfect time travel and set themselves up as Time's guardian. They defended time from ruptures and interference. Eccleston's Doctor references this in "Father's Day" where he says that the Timelords would have healed the breach but they are dead, so they can't. It seems to me that the Doctor CAN break the rules of time but the Gallifreyans didn't create the rules, they merely saw how nature defended itself and that he would have severe consequences if he tried to interfere with his own past.

IMO, he could have gone back to the Mme and returned to an earlier time, but the scriptwriter wanted the end to be more poinant.

And, finally, one for the fanboys. I wonder if in two regenerations (not that long away!) he will regenerate into the actor who played the Valyard? He was meant to be the final incarnation of the Doctor and shared many characteristics of the Master.

Or do the powers-that-be demand creative scriptwriting so that the Doctor has more than 12 incarnations ?
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Post by Snakey »

Fil wrote:I liked the episode and couldn't give the slightest toss about all the little tiny details
:winner:

...but I think the 'little tiny details' were explained well enough, anyway ;)
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Post by Governmentyard »

Driller wrote:And, finally, one for the fanboys. I wonder if in two regenerations (not that long away!) he will regenerate into the actor who played the Valyard? He was meant to be the final incarnation of the Doctor and shared many characteristics of the Master.
I fear some naff catch-all excuse dumped in there midi-chlorian like to explain away a lot of stuff, I really do.

Maybe when the timelords grasped control of time, God said "right, you've figured it out - get on with it I'm off to some other dimension" and thus being the last timelord the Doctor is now effectively God. Jesus, there's so many possibilities. It is all to do with Cybermen, face of Boe and angels and royal bloody and torchwood and that though innit?
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Post by Sid James »

Fil wrote:I liked the episode and couldn't give the slightest toss about all the little tiny details
Here here! :D
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Post by offyoutoddle »

This stuff about the tardis not going to the same place at the same time is a little weak. The EXACT same time and place is a physical impossiblity, so pointless to moot. However, approximately the same place and time is perfectly possible, and at least one example comes to mind - Timeflight. The Doctor first appeared at Heathrow, then at the very end reappears there.

Plus, the Tardis had never been to Paris at that moment in the Tardis. He went through the mirror. I really don't think this is a 'can't', its a 'won't'. The Laws of time may not be enforced by the Time Lords anymore, and can be broken (particularly with no Time Lords to stop it). I think its simply the Doctor thinks the Laws make sense, so will not ignore them, even though he could if he wants to. Never has, never will, because that is the type of person he is. If he starts that, where would he stop?

Not sure about this 13 regen limit being enforced by the timelords. I think its down to their biology. After all, the Master had hit that limit, and couldn't go beyond (without getting VERY creative), and I don't think he would of worried about the Time Lords trying to stop him - it didn't stop him from doing anything else he wanted to. The Doctor will most likely not have more than 13 regenerations, the scriptwriters will just have to get creative I guess.
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Post by c64audio »

offyoutoddle wrote:the scriptwriters will just have to get creative I guess.
Or dismiss the problem in one line, or even forget mentioning it. There's three Doctors before that anyway, which is about, maybe 10 years if Tennant does 3. If the new series lasts that long without running out of creative steam.

Actually, that would be a great ending to the series the second time: 13th Doctor dies, have a proper death scene. The end.

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