loved the zeppelins mmmmm lovely
The Dr Who thread
Who's the Derek Acorah lookielike then ? sharing the same space as billie and Doc (bottom left of pic in the logo boxout) ?NickMon wrote:Firefox wrote:
hmm stack conventions...
Ok, now, my speculation after being totally entranced by tonights cybermen return.
It's a paralell universe yeah ? so theres 2 roses (although one is a dog), 2 mickey's (basicly put), so wheres the 2nd doc ? surely in THIS universe, the timelords still exist ? maybe there WAS no time war in this universe ? and maybe (and yeah i'm REALLY hoping for this bit).. Peter Davidson (who hangs around the sets from time to time), might - just Might make a return trip in HIS tardis to team up with our NEW Doc - and save the day
- how freakin sweet would that be then A week to go to find out *shudder*
It's Eccleston.Matrixxx wrote:Who's the Derek Acorah lookielike then ? sharing the same space as billie and Doc (bottom left of pic in the logo boxout) ?
But I've seen the picture close up and it's unbelievably poorly done.
Not only does adding in Eccleston look totally like a badly inserted afterthought but, for some bizarre reason, his head is glowing with radiation that makes him look absolutely absurd.
When I saw it, my instant reaction was to turn to the person next to me and comment: "Eccelston should sue".
It's not merely mildly amateur-looking but is offensively so. I feel deep pain over it on Eccleston's behalf.
The rest of the image, though, is suspiciously normal. Not great but not bad.
I speculate that they created the cover with Tennant and Billie, then someone realised "oh, shit. We've forgotten fucking Eccleston" five minutes before going to press and the work experience kid who had no idea what they were doing was tasked with shuffling the cover content to badly insert an attrociously poorly selected "radation head" picture of Eccleston, which just looks insanely weird (even for a picture of someone whose head is glowing with radiation).
Absolutely piss poor cover art.
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
- John Maynard Keynes
This episode was a strange mix and I have conflicting emotions over it.
Trigger's acting was absolutely fucking shite. What was he thinking?
Were those "zombie" stares supposed to look menacing or something? He just look slightly constipated, to be honest.
Though, he's such a lovable character that it's always good to see him, even if his acting was offensively bad. It's Trigger, after all. It's just impossible to ever genuinely feel negative about Trigger.
Mickey, as Ricky, was also notably bad, attempting an unconvicing "I'm hard" act, which solely seemed to involve being negative while screwing his face up, as if he were a contestant in a gurning competition.
The writer is apparently mysognistic because Jackie was turned into a total bitch and Rose was a whingy cow - which also makes this an episode to violate RTD's idea that "we experience the journey through Rose's eyes" - treating her as a "spare part" with sod all characterisation.
Visually, though, the behind the scenes lads were on top form. Cyberman costume with art deco style and bizarre but strangely cool metallic flares is a triumph of design. Zeppelins worked.
But Cybermen lose all credibility as menacing with shite direction.
Did you see the "Confidential"?
They showed the cybermen actors at their choreography sessions to get them to walk menacingly. There's a scene there with the actors marching in unison and it was absolutely genuinely menacing and frightening - really spooky because they marched totally in unison and marched with unnatural confidence with no individuality at all - even though they weren't in costume.
In the show? They only ever march in confined spaces or, outside, they only show them taking two steps before cutting. Totally not in the show itself at all. Total waste of brilliant trained choreography that we see on "Confidential" and genuinely is a frightening sight to see people march in such a robotic and unnatural way and the excellently designed suits.
Overall, what I'm getting is that only half the crew were pulling their weight.
Writing? Shite. Costumes? Brilliant. Trigger's acting? Embarassingly poor. Special effects and the set designers making Cardiff look like London while nicely adding in those "parallel universe" touches? So good, it was seamless that you failed to even notice. Plotline? Threadbare and near non-existent but what's there is not obvious. Pacing? Touch slow but consistent and measured that improves on many a "fast, slow, fast, slow" does-your-head-in pacing in some other episodes.
Somehow, all menace was, indeed, sucked out of the Cybermen. Which seems one hell of a feat to achieve, being as they were a superbly designed bad guy (the show's well-respected science advisor invented them and it was all a social comment on transplant surgery with a very dark, creepy edge to it all).
(Though I confess to speculation, I think that the only decent bad guy they ever had in Star Trek (before they screwed it up with "Hugh Borg" shite) - the Borg - are not merely connected to the sybermen by being the other half of the word "cyborg" but are essentially loosely plagarised. Where would a placid and limp Star Trek writer really get the dark and evil idea for a race of "assimilating" cyborgs from? If you think of the Borg's quite absurd technical breastplate and then look at the original cyberman designs from the old black and white Who, the appearance has more than a touch of similarity on more than one point.)
Despite all negative comments on individual points, though, I was somehow generally entertained by the episode. I don't exactly know how, I must confess, because of all the piss poor elements that were in it. But it still somehow worked.
Though, this could simply be because I always liked the Cybermen as a bad guy that it may simply be that I cannot ever not like anything that features them in some capacity. I suppose I could also say the same for Trigger. Fond memories overriding clearly bloody awful elements in this episode.
Hence, as I say, strange mixed emotions.
I'm getting that "2001: A Space Odessey" feeling from it: On the one hand, the best and most impressive movie ever made. On the other hand, the worst and most boring movie ever made. Simultaneously.
Also, like 2001, the plot is so minimal, you could write it on the back of a postage stamp but it's extended to feature-length regardless.
Yeah, I'm getting that 2001 feeling: Loving it and hating it in equal measure at the same time.
Trigger's acting was absolutely fucking shite. What was he thinking?
Were those "zombie" stares supposed to look menacing or something? He just look slightly constipated, to be honest.
Though, he's such a lovable character that it's always good to see him, even if his acting was offensively bad. It's Trigger, after all. It's just impossible to ever genuinely feel negative about Trigger.
Mickey, as Ricky, was also notably bad, attempting an unconvicing "I'm hard" act, which solely seemed to involve being negative while screwing his face up, as if he were a contestant in a gurning competition.
The writer is apparently mysognistic because Jackie was turned into a total bitch and Rose was a whingy cow - which also makes this an episode to violate RTD's idea that "we experience the journey through Rose's eyes" - treating her as a "spare part" with sod all characterisation.
Visually, though, the behind the scenes lads were on top form. Cyberman costume with art deco style and bizarre but strangely cool metallic flares is a triumph of design. Zeppelins worked.
But Cybermen lose all credibility as menacing with shite direction.
Did you see the "Confidential"?
They showed the cybermen actors at their choreography sessions to get them to walk menacingly. There's a scene there with the actors marching in unison and it was absolutely genuinely menacing and frightening - really spooky because they marched totally in unison and marched with unnatural confidence with no individuality at all - even though they weren't in costume.
In the show? They only ever march in confined spaces or, outside, they only show them taking two steps before cutting. Totally not in the show itself at all. Total waste of brilliant trained choreography that we see on "Confidential" and genuinely is a frightening sight to see people march in such a robotic and unnatural way and the excellently designed suits.
Overall, what I'm getting is that only half the crew were pulling their weight.
Writing? Shite. Costumes? Brilliant. Trigger's acting? Embarassingly poor. Special effects and the set designers making Cardiff look like London while nicely adding in those "parallel universe" touches? So good, it was seamless that you failed to even notice. Plotline? Threadbare and near non-existent but what's there is not obvious. Pacing? Touch slow but consistent and measured that improves on many a "fast, slow, fast, slow" does-your-head-in pacing in some other episodes.
Somehow, all menace was, indeed, sucked out of the Cybermen. Which seems one hell of a feat to achieve, being as they were a superbly designed bad guy (the show's well-respected science advisor invented them and it was all a social comment on transplant surgery with a very dark, creepy edge to it all).
(Though I confess to speculation, I think that the only decent bad guy they ever had in Star Trek (before they screwed it up with "Hugh Borg" shite) - the Borg - are not merely connected to the sybermen by being the other half of the word "cyborg" but are essentially loosely plagarised. Where would a placid and limp Star Trek writer really get the dark and evil idea for a race of "assimilating" cyborgs from? If you think of the Borg's quite absurd technical breastplate and then look at the original cyberman designs from the old black and white Who, the appearance has more than a touch of similarity on more than one point.)
Despite all negative comments on individual points, though, I was somehow generally entertained by the episode. I don't exactly know how, I must confess, because of all the piss poor elements that were in it. But it still somehow worked.
Though, this could simply be because I always liked the Cybermen as a bad guy that it may simply be that I cannot ever not like anything that features them in some capacity. I suppose I could also say the same for Trigger. Fond memories overriding clearly bloody awful elements in this episode.
Hence, as I say, strange mixed emotions.
I'm getting that "2001: A Space Odessey" feeling from it: On the one hand, the best and most impressive movie ever made. On the other hand, the worst and most boring movie ever made. Simultaneously.
Also, like 2001, the plot is so minimal, you could write it on the back of a postage stamp but it's extended to feature-length regardless.
Yeah, I'm getting that 2001 feeling: Loving it and hating it in equal measure at the same time.
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
- John Maynard Keynes
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offyoutoddle
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Certainly not. I am enjoying this season much more than the previous one, and other than a few criticisms I have of Rise of the Cybermen which in truth mainly stem from how much I loved the old Cybermen, I still enjoyed it. I think Tennant is a pretty good Doctor, and I'm going to be here until the end.HGFB wrote:It's like Outpost Gallifrey here these daysAm I the only one still emjoying it?
one joy scatters a thousand griefs
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Actually I think that echoes my sentiments entirely. Although I do feel your being a teeny bit harsh on the choreography in the show - I felt it did work. I particularly loved the way they f kicked the windows through and stepped in. The marching through the grounds at night worked pretty well for me also.KlaxonCow wrote:
snip snip
Though, this could simply be because I always liked the Cybermen as a bad guy that it may simply be that I cannot ever not like anything that features them in some capacity.
snip snip
Hence, as I say, strange mixed emotions.
I was more concerned with Trigger hamming about like some knock-off Davros. Still can't agree on everything I guess!
Never felt that 2001 had a minimal plot as a film myself - although maybe I'm just extrapolating what I know of all the books as well. In some ways I wish I had seen the film first in that instance. Personally I wished I had enjoyed this episode as much as 2001 - I would be a bit happier.KlaxonCow wrote: I'm getting that "2001: A Space Odessey" feeling from it: On the one hand, the best and most impressive movie ever made. On the other hand, the worst and most boring movie ever made. Simultaneously.
Also, like 2001, the plot is so minimal, you could write it on the back of a postage stamp but it's extended to feature-length regardless.
Do agree though, it doesn't have to a showpiece 2 parter, hence the pace was a little slow in my personal opinion.
one joy scatters a thousand griefs
Is this a spoiler? Is Eccleston from the parallel universe showing up to save the day next week? That would be cool.KlaxonCow wrote:It's Eccleston.Matrixxx wrote:Who's the Derek Acorah lookielike then ? sharing the same space as billie and Doc (bottom left of pic in the logo boxout) ?
Also, given the photo, I was expecting to see Cybermen with glass plates over the braincase. Which would also have been quite cool.
Still, I'm giving this a 6/10. It's not especially good when compared to the previous two episodes, but better than the the first couple.
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PurpleChair
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I quite liked it. I thought Evil Trigger was quite well done, too. I'm intrigued to see him inevitably show up next week as some kind of rock hard Cyberbastard. And I liked the bit where Mickey started apologising to his gran and stuff. For a brief moment, it was more moving than the whole of last week's episode.
Actually, I'd say I liked it quite a lot. It's just, what I didn't like so much, was the way they introduced the Cybermen. I'm not quite sure what it was - maybe something to do with all the massive pictures we've been shown for months now - but all those obscured shots of them walking about prior to The Big Reveal didn't really work so well. I guess there were just too many of them, or something. It's just, when the Cybermen attack at the end, there was almost a sense of dread, but you're just too "used" to them by that point. Well, for me, anyway.
Actually, I'd say I liked it quite a lot. It's just, what I didn't like so much, was the way they introduced the Cybermen. I'm not quite sure what it was - maybe something to do with all the massive pictures we've been shown for months now - but all those obscured shots of them walking about prior to The Big Reveal didn't really work so well. I guess there were just too many of them, or something. It's just, when the Cybermen attack at the end, there was almost a sense of dread, but you're just too "used" to them by that point. Well, for me, anyway.
"I don't care if you're Bison or sheep! Saikyo style won't lose!"
No, no, I thought it was a pretty good episode. Trigger was crap, yes, but the cyberblokes were excellent. Nice and heavy and stompy. Mickey was also good - the scene with his gran was very well done.HGFB wrote:It's like Outpost Gallifrey here these days
It wasn't a patch on The Girl in the Fireplace, but it's a bit unfair to judge overall on only half a story - this week was setup, next week is payoff. Fingers crossed they get it right.
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HGFB
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New website time
http://cybusindustries.net/
http://internationalelectromatics.co.uk/
http://www.cybusfitness.co.uk/
http://cybusindustries.net/
http://internationalelectromatics.co.uk/
http://www.cybusfitness.co.uk/
My bag is called Mr Shitface
If he turned up, saved the day, and slagged Tennant off ("You're not very good at this, are you?") It'd be pretty funnyIstar wrote:Is this a spoiler? Is Eccleston from the parallel universe showing up to save the day next week? That would be cool.
Wouldn't make much sense though. He mentions that when the Timelords were still about, you could jump between realities no problem. Which kind of implies that there is just one lot of Timelords, and the rules of "Alternate Timelines" don't apply to them.
Otherwise there'd be at least one other timeline where they still exist, and other Timelords would be popping up all over the place.
But I guess they can do whatever the hell they like, they just had the Cybermen created on earth, for fucks sake.
Aaanyway...
The Torchwood references are tacky as fuck. At least with the "Bad Wolf" stuff you had to look for it.
Other than that, and the stuff that the Rev and Klaxon mentioned - I didn't really dislike this episode, but I didn't really like it that much either. It just didn't deliver for some reason. Maybe next week will rectify that.
But on the whole, there's just been too many episodes this series (i.e. all but ONE of them) that did nothing for me, already. Colour me unimpressed
< EDIT > : Do like this though
Last edited by Snakey on Sun May 14, 2006 9:48 am 0, edited 1 time in total.
Nothing is worth the effort you put into it.
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