The Dr Who thread

Inane baanter or words of wisdom - you decide...
Post Reply
User avatar
arron
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 7047
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 11:42 pm 0
Location: Here and Now

Post by arron »

Mayhem wrote:One question, and not getting all analysey here at all, but if this was a parallel Earth and the Cybermen were created there... why did they still have the "tears of Mondas" in their design? ;)

(okay it can be explained via other means... probably)
Now, there's an interesting question. Also..as part of the Tenth Planet, did you notice that Mondas seemed to bear more than a passing resemblance to Earth in its geography?

The Doctor could..possibly have introduced the cybermen to our universe from the parallel one..after they've had time for 'refinements' and development of hand/integral weapons. After all, he's still got to get back yet.
"Observation is the path to understanding. Self-observation is the path to self-understanding."
User avatar
Driller
Baaaaa!
Baaaaa!
Posts: 1926
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:21 pm 0
Location: SE London

Post by Driller »

goatboy wrote:
Matrixxx wrote:And my last thought was from the movie Who... in the intro, it said timelords have a certain number of lives - I believe tennant has gone beyond the set number of regenerations - is there an official explanation for this yet or will they just try to write it out later in the show do you think ?
You get either 12 or 13 regens, officially - they your mind/soul/memory/whatever gets incorporated into 'the matrix' which is a big computer on the (now destroyed) gallifrey so perhaps if there's no Matrix for a timelord soul to enter, he just does regenerate some other how. Certainly the rules have fallen by the wayside for the already somewhat renegade Doctor since the time war. Although a Timelord can 'live forever, barring accidents' according to the 4th Doctor, I think it was. But a timelord can ju8mp bodies - the Master has done it already, and Romana chose from a selection when she regenerated.

Plenty of scope yet without distorting the already established canon regen rules and that.
Technically though, didn't it appear that Romana used up about five regenerations in that scene? It's the only time AFAIK that a Timelord has regenerated and chose their form. I've read that it was because she got extremely high grades and was more intelligent than the Doctor so she had ability but I've also read that he faked his academy results to make himself seem less intelligent.
User avatar
HGFB
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 23575
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 8:51 pm 0
Location: At my desk. Tap tap tapping.

Post by HGFB »

Matrixxx wrote:One thing we DO know, is that the timelords are indeed around in this universe
No we don't. The Torchwood reference means nothing. Torchwood could be a chain of bookstores in that Universe. Did you also miss the little fact that there's no time vortex there either?
My bag is called Mr Shitface
User avatar
benedictw
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 6012
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:44 pm 0
XBL Gamertag: CoderBen
Location: Poole, UK
Contact:

Post by benedictw »

arron wrote: The Doctor could..possibly have introduced the cybermen to our universe from the parallel one..after they've had time for 'refinements' and development of hand/integral weapons. After all, he's still got to get back yet.
This is part of my Looney Theory: The cybermen overrun earth#2 leaving the doc to retreat back to the main timeline. Then, during the end of season finale thingy, the cybermen penetrate across invading 'our' earth.
Gamertag\PSN: CoderBen
Matrixxx
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 8282
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:08 pm 0

Post by Matrixxx »

HGFB wrote:
Matrixxx wrote:One thing we DO know, is that the timelords are indeed around in this universe
No we don't. The Torchwood reference means nothing. Torchwood could be a chain of bookstores in that Universe. Did you also miss the little fact that there's no time vortex there either?
Ouch, yeah forgot bout that ---- maybe theres some other method of travel then ? not a vortex, but, something else.... wierd...

Torch wood books - hmmm :lol: I LIKE IT !
User avatar
Stuart B
Baaaaaa!
Baaaaaa!
Posts: 2720
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 2:14 am 0
Location: Deepest, darkest Cambridgeshire, UK
Contact:

Post by Stuart B »

Matrixxx wrote: Ouch, yeah forgot bout that ---- maybe theres some other method of travel then ? not a vortex, but, something else.... wierd...
!
Maybe there is a time vortex in that universe, but it just swirls around in the other direction, eh?

;)

As far as speculation goes, I'd like to think that the Cybermen from our universe, after so many defeats at the hands of the Doctor, are trying to influence their own creation in this parallel earth, possibly in order to restore their number.

But hey, that's just me :)
Flickr Photostream | 500px Portfolio
"We deduce he was killed by a high speed avian projectile to the face."
"Break the murder weapon and make a wish!"
User avatar
KlaxonCow
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 8444
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 3:46 am 0
Location: A large grassy field.

Post by KlaxonCow »

Public Hermit wrote:But you don't say how utterly poo Tennant is. For shame!
With reason: I think Tennant's excellent as the Doctor.

Eccleston was the better actor, in a general sense, and therefore he actually got away with it, through all that "I am the last of the Timelords" emotionalising, that he wasn't really playing the Doctor.

Tennant is not so much the RSC actor - "you should see my King Lear and Falstaff, luvvie" - type but he very much is the essence of the Doctor.

The right amount of eccentric...but without mistaking it for insanity, as Eccleston did.

The right amount of vurnerability...but without blubbering and wetting himself like a baby every time a big nasty alien showed up, as Ecceltson did.


Don't get me wrong. Eccleston is a fantastically good actor. Which is basically how he managed to get away with playing what was actually an absurdly exaggerated over-emotionalised characature of the Doctor, while avoiding actually being him completely.


For sure, the kids watching the series for the first time these days will warm and relate better to Tennant over Eccleston.
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
KlaxonCow
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 8444
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 3:46 am 0
Location: A large grassy field.

Post by KlaxonCow »

BlackJedi wrote:No, no, I thought it was a pretty good episode. Trigger was crap, yes, but the cyberblokes were excellent. Nice and heavy and stompy. Mickey was also good - the scene with his gran was very well done.
I forgot about the scene with his gran.

Actually, there was also the mild touch of "male bonding" with the Doctor at the start, where, for once, the Doctor actually bothered to talk to him.

That also worked in a subtle way because it got across "the Doctor and Mickey are slowly getting to know each other" thing but without doing it in any "sledgehammer to crack a nut" obvious way. No stupid spontaneous hug or forced "you know, I hated you but I think you're alright now, Doctor" dialogue appearing from nowhere.

You could see them "male bond" but only loosely and not completely, which is nice gradual realistic pacing if the intention is that, eventually, they get along well.


Yeah, that also fits in with this bizarre "duality" that was in the episode:

Mickey, as Mickey, doing the "male bonding" and meeting his gran and showing some indepenence that he walked off to do that in the first place - the whole Mickey sub-plot - was actually quite good.

Mickey, as Rickey, was fucking dreadfully bad.


Also, if analyse the "male bonding" while totally fucking ignoring Rose as a useless "spare part" while all the female characters were all turned into total bitches, yet Rose's Dad - shown to be a bit of dick previously (unintentionally and innocnently a bit of a dick but a bit of a dick nonetheless) - is now somehow a redeemed character...

...spotting a pattern yet?

As I say, this writer is betraying some serious kind of misogynistic / homoerotic psychological tendency here. Women are generally non-existent and when they aren't non-existent, they are total bitches. While, at the beginning, the Doctor and Mickey were "male bonding" in the style of Ancient Greece (well, it's what SJS said: "You can tell you're getting older, Doctor, your assistants are getting younger").

And, no, the episode isn't written by RTD but it would be a cruel libel to link his homosexuality to being a misogynist as, in fact, he seems very obviously to relate to being Rose more that he treats her with the supreme respect (almost idolising at times) that the other writers - especially this episode's writer - clearly don't wholly share. Sexuality is a more complex beast than the stereotypes give credit for and RTD's one of your "I wish I was a girl" kind of gay men, it seems.

I hesitate to even consider what's psychologically going on with this episode's writer, though, because I'm picking up what's almost aggressive woman-hating here. If it's not ignoring the woman totally, it's writing her wholly without any emotion or characterisation at all (but having no problem writing that in for all the male parts) and if the writer can't avoid the woman speaking, she opens her mouth to reveal she's a total bitch.

But there may be a clue elsewhere in the episode: Mickey's gran.

When Rose tells the Dcctor about Mickey's gran, she made a comment that I personally found pretty fucking weird: "She hits him". To which Rose - now characterised as an evil bitch by the misogynist writer - laughs her head off and the remark was made as if hitting someone was a sign of love.

And, sure enough, Mickey's gran hits him and nags him when we see her later.

Put the clues in order: Misogynist woman-hating throughout the script and then a bizarre comment - to which "evil Rose" laughs - thinking it's just fine and a sign of how much Mickey's gran loves Mickey because she slaps him all the time?


Wait a minute, let me get the Radio Times here. What else did this writer work on?

Yeah, there it is: "No Angels". Female nurses as horrible bitchy sluts only out for sex, trying to aggressively smash down the social stereotype of nurses - a feminine "mothering" role - being "angels".

What else? "Mile High". Again, smashing down the stereotype of the air stewardess - a feminine "mothering" role - as also being "no angels" because, behind the curtains and crammed into the plane toilet, the show exposes them as actually being borrible bitchy sluts only out for sex.


Oh dear.

"Houston, we have a problem".


Lie on the couch, Mr.McRae, and in the words of Sigmund Freud: "tell me about your mother". :lol:
Last edited by KlaxonCow on Sun May 14, 2006 6:50 pm 0, edited 1 time in total.
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
HGFB
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 23575
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 8:51 pm 0
Location: At my desk. Tap tap tapping.

Post by HGFB »

Way to overanalyse dude.
My bag is called Mr Shitface
User avatar
KlaxonCow
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 8444
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 3:46 am 0
Location: A large grassy field.

Post by KlaxonCow »

HGFB wrote:Way to overanalyse dude.
I see dead people too. :wink: :lol:


Sorry, I have a very quirky sense of humour. The whole "outpost galifrey" angle is wholly mocked with tongue firmly in cheek throughout.


edit - though, up to and including the Mickey / Rickey part, I was being serious. I lost the plot from that point onwards. :D
Last edited by KlaxonCow on Sun May 14, 2006 7:19 pm 0, edited 2 times in total.
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
HGFB
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 23575
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 8:51 pm 0
Location: At my desk. Tap tap tapping.

Post by HGFB »

Rose was laughing about Mickey being whalopped by his strict gran for the same reasons we were a few minutes later. It was funny. She's a funny old gal who tried to bring him up right :)

Why you a staying our all night boy *Whack*. Worryin' your old gran like that *bash*.

Say the above in the appropriate accent :)

*Edit* My gran used to smack me when I did something wrong too. If you could see it I bet you'd be laughing too :)
My bag is called Mr Shitface
User avatar
Gorecki
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 5962
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:39 am 0
Location: Essex, home of the Boy Racer

Post by Gorecki »

KlaxonCow wrote:Wait a minute, let me get the Radio Times here. What else did this writer work on?

Yeah, there it is: "No Angels". Female nurses as horrible bitchy sluts only out for sex, trying to aggressively smash down the social stereotype of nurses - a feminine "mothering" role - being "angels".
Good lord, how wrong can you be. No Angels was nothing like that what so ever. Absolutely nothing like it at all.

I didn't realise that the guy who wrote that episode of Dr Who also wrote some of No Angels. That's a shame becuse by the standards of No Angels that was a definite dissapointment. It was still ok, I enjoyed it, but it wasn't in the same league as 'Girl In The Fireplace'.
Tang Sou!
User avatar
KlaxonCow
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 8444
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 3:46 am 0
Location: A large grassy field.

Post by KlaxonCow »

Gorecki wrote:Good lord, how wrong can you be.
Totally. I could be totally wrong.


I could also have not been altogether serious with the whole Sigmund Freud analysis.

I could have been poking just a little fun at myself for all the previous "Outpost Galifrey over-analysis" by overdoing it to the point of comical absurdity.


Quirky jester-like sense of humour. Just ignore me.
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
Matrixxx
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 8282
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:08 pm 0

Post by Matrixxx »

Watched it again tonight - cant believe I missed the 2nd torchwood reference (at the party, apparently a guy called STEVE, who knows something about a published report).

Different back history too - Lumic just "invented" these - the original cybermen were created by scientists on their own planet by replacing failing body parts until eventually everything got replaced. I wonder where the "design" came from though - and I find I am looking twice at people with bluetooth headsets now. 8O
User avatar
Wibble
Baaaaaa!
Baaaaaa!
Posts: 3317
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 10:13 pm 0
XBL Gamertag: misterwibble
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Wibble »

Matrixxx wrote:I wonder where the "design" came from though - and I find I am looking twice at people with bluetooth headsets now. 8O
The design? I'd imagine they were at least influenced by this:

Image
Post Reply