Official Nintendo Fanboy Smugness & Gloating Thread

[zbandito]

Even if they used off the shelf sensor packages I'm sure R&D, integration, and development wasn't cheap... but let's face it - Nintendo's overall hardware development budget isn't what Sony's or Microsoft's is. The question is whether it's good enough, and it probably is. Nintendo hasn't always had the most powerful hardware; their most popular console (for it's time), the 8-Bit NES, definitely did not have the most advanced hardware but was still a huge sucess. Nintendo merely needs to make enough money and sales to have the whole venture be profitable, and the value of their franchises (and lower initial development costs) nearly ensure that.

I'm guessing they have about a year and a half for Wii to really succeed, though, in order for it to have enough momentum.. Developers are likely going to be targeting PS3 and 360 titles with similar specs; Wii's hardware and interface probably means that more Wii software will be developed with the unit in mind. This might lead to fewer 3rd party titles developed if the system isn't a resounding success, and with fewer titles available chances of success decrease, going around and around again in some terrible death spiral.

If the controller or system gains acceptance, Sony or Microsoft will probably become more aggresive about cloning/improving the controller/interface and it's functionality. Once similar control mechanisms and lower prices exist, the superior hardware of PS3 and 360 might prove a challenge to Wii further out.

The question then sort of transforms into 'what does Wii's potential success (or lack thereof) mean for Nintendo's hardware strategy?'. Has Nintendo invested enough in Wii, and hardware development costs risen so high, that Wii's failure would mean Nintendo's withdrawl from the home console market? Could they afford another console? Could it be introduced in less than 5+ years, before Sony and Microsoft move to PlayStation4 and Xbox4k?

If Wii is highly successful, how long can it's success last? Is the hardware strong enough or cheap enough to last 5 years?

Would Nintendo find greater commercial success as a multiplatform developer? How would this integrate to their portable hardware strategy?



</ramble>

[daniel thomas]

I was thinking the same thing about Sonic. The transition to 3D took something away from the clasiic gameplay that has never been matched since. And given that Sonic mostly involves moving forward as fast as possible, why not try the Wii on-rails control scheme.

I'm not entirely sure if the final game will work, or if it will have any sense of replay value, like, oh, Nights (the best 3D Sonic game ever made), but the demo shown at E3 grabbed my attention much more than any of the past few sequels, including the upcoming PS3/360 Sonic.

The fact that I'm already deciding on which games to pick up at launch is a testament to Nintendo's console and the groovy new games. Bring on the Wii version of Meteos and Yoshi Touch and Go already!

P.S. Can you believe there's already three airplane games for this thing? Nintendo has Wii Sports and eventually Pilotwings, and Hudson Soft has a title. Was everybody that captivated by the thought of holding the Wiimote like a paper airplane? Wierd.

P.P.S. Oh, yeah, almost forgot. Ha ha ha ha ha Playstation suckers! You just know those kids camping overnight for their PS3's are gonna get mugged. Might do it myself and retire on some tropical island.

[Snakey]

The question then sort of transforms into 'what does Wii's potential success (or lack thereof) mean for Nintendo's hardware strategy?'. Has Nintendo invested enough in Wii, and hardware development costs risen so high, that Wii's failure would mean Nintendo's withdrawl from the home console market? Could they afford another console?

I think this is the strategy they're taking now. Spend as little as possible on the console, so if it DOES fail they haven't really lost that much.

But the upshot of that is that they can afford to sell it for WAY less than their competition.

This, combined with a few nice looking games, could see them do very well indeed.

[Kemper_Boyd]

But while we're on the subject, Nintendo have already stated that you can remove both sensors and stick them anywhere you like, so it's not triangulating shit. The thing knows which way up it is. That's all it needs.

God I forgot all about the removing the sensors. They can't be doing the
angles just from the brightness and position in the sensor? That would be
somewhat lacking in accuracy I'd have thought.

[Muttley]

But while we're on the subject, Nintendo have already stated that you can remove both sensors and stick them anywhere you like, so it's not triangulating shit. The thing knows which way up it is. That's all it needs.

God I forgot all about the removing the sensors. They can't be doing the
angles just from the brightness and position in the sensor? That would be
somewhat lacking in accuracy I'd have thought.

Maybe they just put a few LEDs in the E3 display models to thrown competitors off the trail of the real method?

I guess we'll just have to wait and find out at launch.

Muttley

[zbandito]

Has Nintendo invested enough in Wii, and hardware development costs risen so high, that Wii's failure would mean Nintendo's withdrawl from the home console market? Could they afford another console?

I think this is the strategy they're taking now. Spend as little as possible on the console, so if it DOES fail they haven't really lost that much.

So you think they've got it in them for another round? They certainly might, but if they lose out it won't be for lack of a cheap platform with a 'revolutionary' control scheme... it would probably be for not having the hardware muscle, right? I guess it could be anything, from not having enough games, to consumer whim, but if it came down to tech, could Nintendo afford a next-next gen hw dev budget to compete with the next iteration of hardware from the other manufacturers? Let alone the other factors; launch window, competition, implication to handheld market if they sit it out a round or abandon the home console market altogether..

[Roobarb]

But while we're on the subject, Nintendo have already stated that you can remove both sensors and stick them anywhere you like, so it's not triangulating shit. The thing knows which way up it is. That's all it needs.

God I forgot all about the removing the sensors. They can't be doing the
angles just from the brightness and position in the sensor? That would be
somewhat lacking in accuracy I'd have thought.

It's not clear the sensors are still removable though. They certainly don't look it from the close-up pictures. Did anyone at E3 see sensors removed from the bar?

[Kronos]

Ive always seen nintendo as rock solid, even if they dont get ballistic sales like the n64 days, they always had gameboy and pokemon to more than compensate!

Its the same with the DS now too, you cant fault their strategy and i cant see the day when nintendo dont have the money to make another console they always make a profit on the handheld side no matter what. PSP didnt kill it, yet another handheld fighting to keep up with the king of handhelds. they know their market very well indeed now i think.

[Roobarb]

they know their market very well indeed now i think.

Nintendo definitely seems to have placed some very interesting bets since Mr. Iwata took over, and he looks to have found a winning direction so far with the DS.

I think this is the strategy they're taking now. Spend as little as possible on the console, so if it DOES fail they haven't really lost that much.
But the upshot of that is that they can afford to sell it for WAY less than their competition.

I would change the emphasis of those sentences. It would certainly be sensible for Nintendo to minimise hardware R&D investment in case Wii bombs, but the key factor here seems to be price. If you want to market a console to people who aren't fussed about gaming, then you'd better make it affordable. The decision to not worry about High-Def yet is clearly another example of that.

This, combined with a few nice looking games, could see them do very well indeed.

Totally. And from the looks of it they are sinking considerable software R&D into Wii.

Do not try to tell me you didn't believe Nintendo had designed this thing themselves. But the simple fact is, they didn't.

Depends what you mean by designed though really. If you're a systems integrator you should only devote R&D to the bits you can add value to. If you can buy off-the-shelf or semi-customised parts from suppliers cheaper enough, it's not worth building that part yourself. For the same reason, Nintendo don't make their own screws, or run their own copper mine.

I don't think there's any doubt that Nintendo defined the form-factor and capabilities of this controller though, and did a significant amount of integration work. I would also not be surprised if they held intellectual property on how the LEDs on the sensor bar work.

But they wanted people to think this until AFTER E3, because Sony OR MS could have just gone to the same company and bought the same tech.

The timing of the announcements with E3 is clearly not coincidental. However, i'm not convinced it was to stop Sony or MS using the same tech. I'd be surprised if they weren't aware of the tech or the suppliers. They may not have known for sure exactly who Nintendo chose, but it's not really that big a deal for them to know or not. After all, Sony must have chosen ADI for their mems part long before it was announced they were supplying Nintendo. And if you're going to do a pointer-like solution, a camera+image processor is a fairly obvious choice.

It is quite common for there never to be such announcements made. After all, it's mostly for the benefit of the supplier, and the supplier will usually offer slightly more favourable terms if they can make such announcements. The timing with E3 offers the most impact.

If you really want to secure an exclusive relationship with a supplier you have to make it worth their while (i.e. pay them lots of money). I doubt Nintendo bothered, since there are plenty of companies making mems accelerometer/tilt devices and system-on-chip cameras with image processing capabilities.

[Snakey]

Agree with pretty much all of that, Roobarb...

Depends what you mean by designed though really. If you're a systems integrator you should only devote R&D to the bits you can add value to. If you can buy off-the-shelf or semi-customised parts from suppliers cheaper enough, it's not worth building that part yourself.

Absolutely, it makes perfect sense, and it's the only sane thing to do. Its just that suggesting "Nintendo bought tech from somebody else" seems to be interpreted by some people as slagging them off, when in fact it's entirely the opposite. They'd have been mad to try to recreate something themselves that was already available, and probably has had a lot of time and money spent on it already.

They may not have known for sure exactly who Nintendo chose

Well it's not so much that, more that they won't have known exactly WHAT was going into the thing. Let them believe it's NOT something they can just go out and buy. Keep them guessing.

Had this all come out before E3, I'm sure Sony's controller would have had more than it's got in it now, and Sony would have been claiming "yeah, we thought of that too." Not so easy now, though

[Roobarb]

They may not have known for sure exactly who Nintendo chose

Well it's not so much that, more that they won't have known exactly WHAT was going into the thing. Let them believe it's NOT something they can just go out and buy. Keep them guessing.

They certainly play a good game of poker

Had this all come out before E3, I'm sure Sony's controller would have had more than it's got in it now, and Sony would have been claiming "yeah, we thought of that too." Not so easy now, though

It didn't stop them trying that on with the tilt feature though

I wonder how feasible a camera-based approach would be at the moment, without the LEDs (which i'm presuming Nintendo have patented). After all, I bet Sony/MS would like to get hold of a cheap light gun...


Anyway, i can't wait for Nintendo's new toy to come out. I just hope they make this side of Christmas.

Queue for the Wii :
http://www.n-sider.com/newsview.php?typ ... oryid=2152

[Anders]

Queue for the Wii :
http://www.n-sider.com/newsview.php?typ ... oryid=2152

Christ... I felt so sorry for the people at the back of the line.

[Atty]

PGC have posted another hands-on impressions of Zelda, and it's pretty critical of the control setup Nintendo have use for the Wii version.

http://www.planetgamecube.com/impressio ... rtid=11567

It sounds like Nintendo may want to move the 'A' Button and D-pad somewhat closer together so it's easier to move between the two in a hurry.

Still, there's this same odd problem of some sites saying that the controls were fun and interesting, while others, especially PGC seemed to struggle with them. I guess there really is no such thing as a console for everyone.

It'll be interesting to see what they'll change by the time it's realeased. I would imagine that even now, nothing, not even the controller is truly finalised.

[Anders]

It will be interesting to see who has an easier time adjusting to the Wii controller. People who haven't played games before or console veterans who expect things to function a certain way...

[Samus]

There will be games for everyone and games for us who are more used to complex games. Look at the 1UP part 2 and see how well the girl plays Zelda. It's quite telling.