Official Nintendo Fanboy Smugness & Gloating Thread

Inane baanter or words of wisdom - you decide...
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Snakey
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Post by Snakey »

A Black Falcon wrote:Um, so it's impossible that they both spent a lot of money on development and liscenced some technology from others?
Whatever, I can see that the fanboys are never going to be convinced of anything, even when it is the best thing they could have done, and shows that Nintendo know exactly what they're doing.. But yeah. Lets all spend a fortune for no good reason when we already know exactly what's going in the box. Makes perfect sense ;)
A Black Falcon wrote:even if some technology pre-existed, Nintendo had to put it all together and give it this form
They had to make a plastic box to put it in.
A Black Falcon wrote:I very highly doubt that they are lying
Where did anyone mention lying? It was a huge exaggeration. Not an outright lie.
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Post by Samus »

Snakey I'm very interested in what Wii games were demoed to you or what Wii games you played yourself before E3? Among other things I remember you making it quite clear that you'd seen all that they have. Let's try and keep it nice.
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Post by Roobarb »

I'm guessing Snakey can't tell you that, Samus. Or maybe he could but, James Bond style, he'd have to shag you afterwards.

A Black Falcon, i think what Snakey is saying is that until the Analog Devices, ST Micro and PixArt press releases came out there were all sorts of weird and wonderful ideas on internet discussion boards about how the controller worked. From radar, to sonar, to GPS style tracking, to magic pixie dust made by the Nintendo elves in Princess Peach's herb garden. Many of the more rabid posters clearly had no clue about the relative costs of the solutions they proposed, and there is a certain breed of Nintendo fanboy that clearly thinks Nintendo have limitless buckets of money to burn in their hash pipes whilst crafting uber-mega products from scratch that Sony or MS could never hope to replicate.

Nintendo themselves never confirmed or denied any of the speculation. Why should they? Never give out more information than you absolutely have to is a pretty good policy in competitive business. If people chose to interpret what Nintendo have said about the controller in a certain way, i don't think that's particularly down to Nintendo. Going back through what Nintendo have said in the past, the message about the Wii was consistently 'we are focusing our efforts on how a player interacts with games to make them more accessible, rather than blowing a huge wad on uber-graphics'. The message has always been small, low power consumption, affordable. That means less investment, less production cost, not more. And reading Mr Iwata's GDC speech, it looks like a very honest appraisal of the investment they made in the controller to me.

What he didn't say explicitly, but is clearly also the case, is they're not actually in a position to blow as much money as MS or Sony have on their fancy console engines. Instead Nintendo did some lateral thinking and worked out a way to make people excited about their next generation console *without* spending billions in the process. I think it's a stroke of genius, and if i was Nintendo shareholder, i'd be very happy at this point.

Even so, one shouldn't underplay how big that controller investment was to Nintendo.

Sure, it's not as big an investment as the $4 billlion MS sank into Xbox R&D and money lost on each sale, or the $300million Sony invested in the original Playstation, or the estimated $2bn-$2.5bn invested in development of PS2 and PS3. But then, Nintendo isn't in a position to steamroller itself into dominating yet another market on the back of the obscene $8-12billion (30% of sales) net profit made every year from OS and Office productivity monopolies. Nor is it able to use its processor design and manufacturing facilities across many of the product lines of its parent company. A billion dollar plus Cell CPU investment only makes sense if you can spread its cost across a significant chunk of $65billion in year sales.

Nintendo is a company with around $4-5billion in sales, $5-800million net profit, and ~3000 employees, and spends around $200million on R&D (hardware and software) each year. According to IGN they have around 850 developers in Kyoto, and if you look at the breakdown given, the vast majority of these are games developers. I counted 50+ in "Nintendo Research & Engineering" responsible for portable hardware, and a maximum of 150 in "Nintendo Integrated Research & Development" only some of which are responsible for console hardware (let's say another 50 are involved in console hardware, and 100 in software). I believe these divisions have changed since then, but presumably they still have somewhere near the same numbers of people doing the same jobs.

So, if you assume 100ish people working on hardware at all, and it's split 50:50 portable:home console, then 15 people working on a controller, which is just one part of an entire console, is a big proportion of your available hardware engineering resources for that console. If they had just made "a new plastic box to put it in" :wink: and stuck in a bluetooth radio and mems gyro/accelerometr like their competitors did, rather than reconceive it again from scratch, it would have only cost a fraction of that to design. Not only that, every unit sold will also make them less profit (and most likely a loss at first), if they want to price it competitively with Sony's and MS's controllers. Then of course there's the many millions of dollars investment being made in working out ways for Nintendo's games for Wii to make use of the controller's capabilities in ways that will actually prove entertaining and attractive to hardcore gamers, casual gamers, and possibly even my mum.

Add all that lot up and i don't think Mr Iwata overstated it when he said that the controller was a big deal for them.

Anyway, enough rambling. Let's get on with some more We Wub Wii posts :D
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Post by Kemper_Boyd »

You might quibble about some of the figures but all in all I think that's
a fair and probable analysis by Roobarb.
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Post by Samus »

Roobarb wrote:I'm guessing Snakey can't tell you that, Samus. Or maybe he could but, James Bond style, he'd have to shag you afterwards.
Snakey sent me a PM a while ago stating just that. I had a couple of reasons for asking....but....whatever.
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Post by Darkflame »

Whatever, I can see that the fanboys are never going to be convinced of anything, even when it is the best thing they could have done, and shows that Nintendo know exactly what they're doing.. But yeah. Lets all spend a fortune for no good reason when we already know exactly what's going in the box. Makes perfect sense
No one is saying anything like that :-/

We are simply saying that theres more to a controller then a few pre-made sensors. It would be *more* expensive and pointless if they made the sensors themselfs, sure.

I guess you must have the internal R&D budget reports or something that because you are so convienced it was cheap to make.
.. which kinda says that I was absolutely correct
You were correct they used the word "expensive"
You were not correct that they implied, in any way, they developed a internal solution.

What Nintendo said in that speach, and the number of workers they said, points exactly to the solution that they have achieved.
In fact, anyone sensible looking at what they said could not possible think they had made it all themselfs.
It specifically mentions the 'elaborate control system', which they didn't design, they just bought an already working system. So there was no 'manufacturing expense' or 'research and development costs' involved in that.
You act as if they bought the whole thing off the shelf.
They got a positioning system chipset, yes.
That save them a lot of work, yes.
But that does not involeing no development costs.

The way the real world works is it costs you to even find the right solution to use.
And you are a foolish company indeed if you blindly accept the first solution you see rather then testing a few and decideing what works best/cheapest to mass produce.


Your reading a lot of things between the lines, imo.
Nintendo says they designed a elborate controll system, and they did.
What they didnt design was a specific part of how that controll system would work.

Heck, even developing the best ways to mass produce devices takes work.
Compared to a normal controller which is mostly going to be just changeing the plastic shell molds.
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Post by George_Bray »

I've not read this whole thread...

But after actually playing with a Wii last week, I'm genuinely excited about a console release once more, almost as much as the N64 release!

Nintendo does it again, rock on! ;)
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Post by Snakey »

Darkflame wrote:You were correct they used the word "expensive"
...and that is exactly the bit which, apparently, I made up.

As for the rest of it - yeah, ok. The entire group of people who attended that speech were not 'sensible', then.

Bored now. Can't say anything about Nintendo on here these days.
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Post by Samus »

Here's a nice little video of some guys playing Wii-Tennis :)

http://www.gamersreports.com/media/574/videos/
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Post by Samus »

Red Steel footage. Now this is more like it and explains why some people were very happy abt it before E3. Looks much better when the sensitivity is high:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/mark.sertic/rs.avi

Wasn't that impressed of what I saw from E3, but suddenly the game is back on my wanted list :D
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Post by Jamesac »

"...shoot like a real gangster." Argh!

Like a real retarded gangster soon to be little more than a bullet sponge, maybe, but not a real effective gangster.

/off topic

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Post by Stevo »

That Red Steel demo shows how good the
controller wii be for FPS games...........
Excellent
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Post by Anders »

That looks ace, that does. :)
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Post by Samus »

disciple wrote:Couldn't they just use one of the Wiimote (tm) buttons as a toggle.

In one mode it's normal aiming.

To activate the other mode you hold down a button, the crosshair stays where it is and moving the Wiimote causes the viewport to shift.

Effectively this viewport shift would in just how a mouse works wouldn't it. You could allow used defined sensitivty so on high a flick of the wrist right of left could do a full 180.
You know, the more I think about this, the more I like it! I can't see any real problems with this system. It would combine the best of M&K controls, light gun controls and dual analogue controls. The contact button (mapped to 'A') would work just like repositioning your mouse when doing quick turns.

Is there something obvious I'm missing here? This combination of the interface and control mechanics feels pretty much perfect to me..
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Post by Atty »

One thing I'd personally like to see would be all the movement controls moved to the nunchuk controller - forwards, backward and turning would be on the alog stick and strafing would be mapped to the Z1 and Z2 buttons.

This would leave the pointer completely free for aiming and shooting at any point on the screen without the added complication of controlling view turning and tilting. I may be totally wrong, but it seems like you could do some really cool Time Crisis/Point Blank/House of the dead style enemy encounters with a setup like that, whilst still maintaining much of the freedom of a standard FPS.

You could map weapon selection to the Dpad, shooting to A or B and still have one button free for grenades or some other secondary weapon.

The big downside would be the lack of y-axis freelook, but maybe you could do some kind of context sensitive auto-tilt thing depending on the location of enemies and the environment (your view tilts slighty up as you walk up stairs, tilts slightly down when you walk up to a big hole in the floor, etc).

Just a thought, anyway.
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