The Dr Who thread

KlaxonCow · Post by **KlaxonCow** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:11 pm 0

SimonB wrote:I think part of the point of losing the Tardis this time around is actually to force the Doctor to stay - not because he might ignore the peril of others to save Rose (as promised to Jackie) but because this could be the one bad guy he himself would turn and run from, no matter what he has faced down in the past.

Note how he tried to run in Dalek last year? Somethings do scare him and he will try to get away rather than stop the bad guy.

Yeah, good point.

Perhaps facing "the root of all evil" would scare absolutely everyone into running, regardless of who they are.

Maybe you're right.

But I still like the idea of the "hero" thing from the perspective of addressing the issue of the whole Doctor / Rose relationship (and starting to back them out of the "Mulder and Scully" corner they've got into. To be fair to the X-files, the M&S thing was partially explained by Fox's obsession with finding his sister and "the truth". "Moonlighting" was the show where it was "will they? won't they?" without really having any genuine reason for them not just jumping into the sack straight away without faffing around).

I just would have personally written it differently, really (Not least to lessen the mild plagarism and borrowed sound effects from DOOM

).

p.s. I appreciate the fact that you voiced your disagreement properly. You didn't agree with what I was saying but you put up your own opinion and discussed it, instead of this unacceptable "insult him until he shuts up" approach elsewhere (the irony of which is that the more I'm insulted, the more I have to respond to that unacceptable injustice and, without the insults, I'd have "shut up" perfectly naturally. What's the saying? "Stop digging").

HGFB · Post by **HGFB** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:15 pm 0

Harlequin wrote:I therefore declare Eccleston, IMO, to be the better Doctor in terms of deep emotion and Tennant to be the better Doctor in terms of character (followed closely by McCoy and Tom Baker)

Ooooo. On the Usenet Doctor Who group you'd just have started a flame war that would run for decades

KlaxonCow · Post by **KlaxonCow** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:17 pm 0

kalmar wrote:Sigh. How old are you exactly? I know 8 year olds who wouldn't employ that line of argument.

Do you know what the word "irony" means?

Or is it somehow not a childish personal insult when you hypocrticially say it to criticise me, as the whole thrust of your argument against me?

arron · Post by **arron** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:18 pm 0

SimonB wrote:I think part of the point of losing the Tardis this time around is actually to force the Doctor to stay - not because he might ignore the peril of others to save Rose (as promised to Jackie) but because this could be the one bad guy he himself would turn and run from, no matter what he has faced down in the past.

Note how he tried to run in Dalek last year? Somethings do scare him and he will try to get away rather than stop the bad guy.

He is the last time lord, so whereas before, there would be some of his race to carry on where he left off and keep building new TARDISes, now he's the last one, and with the last known TARDIS in existance..so he's probably trying to be more cautious.

Plus given the Dalek was beyond any technology he had to hand to get rid of it for good in the last series (like in Genesis of the Daleks), the next best thing is to slow them down and beat a retreat to fight again..

HGFB · Post by **HGFB** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:22 pm 0

KlaxonCow wrote:Do you know what the word "irony" means?

Or is it somehow not a childish personal insult when you hypocrticially say it to criticise me, as the whole thrust of your argument against me?

THERE WILL BE NO BATTLE HERE

Ollie · Post by **Ollie** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:33 pm 0

KlaxonCow wrote:Someone else mentioned they'd backed themselves into a corner over the Rose / Doctor thing but you could use something like that to bring it back under control: A few major disagreements, conflict and tension. Trouble in the relationship. Stuff that, would they be a real couple, would be equivalent to the "I don't really know you anymore", "maybe we should have a break" major lovers' tiff. Except they aren't a couple and, due to the situation, Rose has to go with the Doctor - no choice in the matter - lest be stuck forever in some weird time and place because there's only the one TARDIS and they've got to "share".

There's a whole interesting dynamic there to explore. Couples have their "off days", things were - yeah - it ain't all "giggles and fun". Things where there is a major disagreement and it plants a big fat wedge between them.

Yes, exactly, and that's where I thought it was going in some of the earlier stories in this season. But they seem to have backed off from that now. I don't get the feeling that's where RTD wants to go with it.

You get my point? If it had been played that way then it throws up a far better plotline than merely "tension". It throws up doubts and conflicts. It says "being a hero isn't easy" because being a hero is actually harsh and difficult.

But most importantly, because it has been rightly said that they've written the Doctor and Rose thing into a corner, it actually address that. It throws the stark and harsh reality in Rose's face that the giggles and adventure have their less pleasant side: He's never going to put her first. He cannot. If he did lose the TARDIS then he'd get himself a spaceship and carry on, just minus the "time travel" part.

Quite. Only it isn't being played that way. So they're still in the corner. A few episodes back, the Doctor was really quite cold to Rose when she asked if he was going to leave her the way he'd left Sarah Jane. The next episode, he was quite prepared to be stranded in the past with Reinette and leave Rose abandoned with Mickey on a spaceship in the 51st century. The episode after that, Rose was still showing a smidgeon of jealousy. Just a smidgeon. But since then it's all been forgotten and she's off on her joint mortgage fantasy. Which, because it can never happen, puts them right back in the corner. Precisely where RTD seems to want them.

As for being stuck with him, and having no choice in whether to go with him or not, that's not really true, as he'll take her back home any time she asks. Personally I'd like to see the TARDIS guidance system break so that option would no longer be available. We might get more interesting stories out of that.

SimonB · Post by **SimonB** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:33 pm 0

arron wrote:
He is the last time lord, so whereas before, there would be some of his race to carry on where he left off and keep building new TARDISes, now he's the last one, and with the last known TARDIS in existance..so he's probably trying to be more cautious.

Good point - although in that case you'd think he'd try and get the thing to not land in quite so many danger spots! Of course no doubt there are hundreds of times he lands somewhere, does a bit of sight seeing and then pops off again. We just don't get to see those on the telly! Actually, it wasn't until re-watching Aliens Of London/WW3 the other week that I realised there had been a short local trip (from Roses's place to the hospital and back) that hadn't gone wrong or left him somewhere unexpected so it must be possible to aim correctly sometimes!

arron wrote:Plus given the Dalek was beyond any technology he had to hand to get rid of it for good in the last series (like in Genesis of the Daleks), the next best thing is to slow them down and beat a retreat to fight again..

Also fair enough.

Simon B

Have you signed up to the Llamasoftie summer burn?
http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?t=53726&start=0

[Feeblez] · Post by **[Feeblez]** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:35 pm 0

I just wanted to say that i watched it lastnight, and despite the cringeworthy bit at the start where Rose and the Doctor always act like laughing idiots, i thought it was probably the best episode i've seen yet.

Better than event horizon, and the bit where the devil(?) was talking to the archeologist dude and telling him not to turn around reminded me so much of Frank in Hellraiser.

I can imagine it was a bit scary for the kids. To be honest i didn't give the TARDIS too much thought, it's down a hole, they will get it back.

At the risk of sounding unfluffy: (again)
I can't help noticing the growing number of people on the forum that need to chill the fuck out and grow a sense of humour. Don't take it so personally when someone takes the piss out of your post. As long as they are not swearing and outright calling you a wanker then what does it matter? Ultimately it is the other forum readers who will decide who is the biggest wanker. So don't worry. Personalities and opinions will inevitably clash, you know, like in real life?

HGFB · Post by **HGFB** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:40 pm 0

If you guys don't want to know what the Beast looks like don't go to the BBC's Doctor Who website. (It's on the front page. Just load and wait)

And definately don't click this link

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i77/tomt25/Image2.jpg

Seriously. Don't click it.

kalmar · Post by **kalmar** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:40 pm 0

SimonB wrote: Good point - although in that case you'd think he'd try and get the thing to not land in quite so many danger spots! Of course no doubt there are hundreds of times he lands somewhere, does a bit of sight seeing and then pops off again. We just don't get to see those on the telly! Actually, it wasn't until re-watching Aliens Of London/WW3 the other week that I realised there had been a short local trip (from Roses's place to the hospital and back) that hadn't gone wrong or left him somewhere unexpected so it must be possible to aim correctly sometimes!

I remember something, perhaps from the novels, about the Tardis not being very reliable about where it would end up, and that it somehow sought out dangerous or interesting situations. Handy for the writers

But after all, the Doctor does act as a sort of time cop.

skweek · Post by **skweek** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:41 pm 0

[Feeblez] wrote: At the risk of sounding unfluffy: (again)
I can't help noticing the growing number of people on the forum that need to chill the fuck out and grow a sense of humour. Don't take it so personally when someone takes the piss out of your post. As long as they are not swearing and outright calling you a wanker then what does it matter? Ultimately it is the other forum readers who will decide who is the biggest wanker. So don't worry. Personalities and opinions will inevitably clash, you know, like in real life?

You're spot on, basically the best way to look at it here is everything is a schoolyard joke. You can easily spot when people are being properly serious , well most of the time anyway.

I think people might need to turn up the sensitivity on the LOL-detectors that they got when they signed up.

P.S. You wanker.

phattslagg · Post by **phattslagg** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:41 pm 0

[Feeblez] wrote: I can imagine it was a bit scary for the kids.

We made the mistake (?) of letting our 3 1/2 yr old watch it for the first time this Saturday, since we were late getting her off to bed, and once she'd seen the first couple of minutes, she insisted she wanted to watch it with us.

She was a bit scared, but we just told her the Devil was another 'alien'.

Afterwards, the started trying to figure out what was going on, and decided that the disembodied voice must be "the aliens' 'other' voice'" - we determined from further discussion, that by this she seemed to mean it was the collective consciousness of the Ood.

For the next couple of days she kept asking when Doctor Who is on again

Little stoned kiwi · Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:42 pm 0

kalmar wrote:I remember something, perhaps from the novels, about the Tardis not being very reliable about where it would end up...

Isn't that the reason Jamie traveled around with him for so long? Trying get back to his own time in Scotland?

Driller · Post by **Driller** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:43 pm 0

DutchLlama wrote:
Driller wrote:Cock! Fucking missed it while watching The Hudsucker Proxy.
Great if weird movie.

So you are forgiven.

You know? For kids?

kalmar · Post by **kalmar** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:46 pm 0

Little stoned kiwi wrote:
kalmar wrote:I remember something, perhaps from the novels, about the Tardis not being very reliable about where it would end up...
Isn't that the reason Jamie traveled around with him for so long? Trying get back to his own time in Scotland?

That's the one!
It does seem a bit more aim-able now, but they've emphasised a few times that it can be unpredictable, and I think this is the key to it turning up at trouble spots.