The Dr Who thread

[Kelloggs]

Oh, and in relation to the Cartmel Masterplan, I've discovered the full (revised) text of Lungbarrow, complete with writer's commentary/notes and a very nice introduction (complete with a lovely "Previously on the New Adventures..." page) at http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/ ... ndex.shtml

I started reading this in work about six months ago, and got back to it yesterday afternoon. Finished it this morning, and I would have to say, Wow. Just... wow. It ties up so many threads and things that it would probably benefit any long-term Who fan to go find and read it. Dunno how canon it is, but that's one clever bit of writing. bouncing off a number of Doctor Who plot points. And it specifically mentions thirteen lives (twelve regenerations) as well. To my mind, it might have allowed for an out at the end of them, but only if Gallifrey still existed...

As a slight aside, I was saying to a friend of mine on Saturday after The Impossible Planet that I think the main difference between the two Doctor Who productions is that, the new set feels as if every single person in any way involved with them is an out-and-out (sorry, Russell) Doctor Who fan. I never got that feeling from the original productions; while there were no doubt fannish persons involved, it felt more like a "day job" from a lot of the interviews I've seen. The new one seems to be fans all the way, and I think that's helping it a lot.

[Harlequin]

What's revised about it Harl? I've got a copy of the original

I'm not entirely certain, as I haven't

However,

I've taken the liberty of tinkering a bit, changing a few things around - things that seemed like a good idea at the time, but definitely don't now. I've surgically removed one section early on, swapped over a couple of chapters and added an extra sequence at the start of the final chapter. The actual story hasn't changed at all. It's modified and augmented, not regenerated. But maybe it flows a little better.

As a slight aside, I was saying to a friend of mine on Saturday after The Impossible Planet that I think the main difference between the two Doctor Who productions is that, the new set feels as if every single person in any way involved with them is an out-and-out (sorry, Russell) Doctor Who fan. I never got that feeling from the original productions; while there were no doubt fannish persons involved, it felt more like a "day job" from a lot of the interviews I've seen. The new one seems to be fans all the way, and I think that's helping it a lot.

Why apologise to Russell? He's so proud of his fandom that he made the character closest to himself a Who fan in Queer As Folk, complete with a guest appearance by K-9 in the final episode It's even rumoured that he asked for the chance to revive DW as part of his reward for coming over to the Beeb. If so, I suspect that it was handed to him in the belief that it would follow the old style and die after a single season.

What I find curious is that the old series ended up aiming itself at old fans, often getting lost up its own mythology, while the new one is created by fans who want to broaden its appeal without getting bogged down in decades' worth of (dis-)continuity

H.
_________________
"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence that it is not utterly absurd; indeed, in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more often likely to be foolish than sensible."
[Bertrand Russell]

[Kelloggs]

Why apologise to Russell?

Sorry. Bit of a childish pun on "out-and-out"...

I think what may also be helping Doctor Who nowadays is that the general level of tech at the Beeb seems to have gone up. We've had enough CGI in the BBC's general output that no-one seems to bat an eyelid at it, which makes up a little bit for the "wobbly sets" and "ropy sfx" from previous. I wouldn't know of budgets and the like, but I suspect that things which were impossible before are now merely expensive, like the Hospital from New Earth. Somehow I can't see flying cars being overlaid onto a matte painting from Tom Baker's day.

[KlaxonCow]

I noticed that too, i thought, no they can't have nicked the door sound from doom, but they sounded exactly the same as i remember.

Yeah, basically, I thought the same.

So I decided to actually check it out by downloading DOOM.

Lo and behold, not just similar but literally the exact same sound. The SFX team just nicked it straight out of DOOM.WAD (I supply the filenames in the video).

Then as I had just installed video editing software that I wanted to test out and I had the footage to do so and I noticed that you can't post attachments to this forum, I thought I'd actually make a (hopefully funny) video out of it for you guys on the forum.

Just trying to raise a smile or a laugh.


But I wasted my time and effort on that one for some people, though, didn't I?


Apparently, in some of the forum's eyes, you need a "membership card" to the "elite group", before they'll even deem to bother to read your post.


Don't worry. I won't push it any more.

I've worked out the policy: Flood the thread with "change the subject" posts and brush it under the carpet and then pretend to oneself that because this hides the problem, there isn't a problem and carry on with the "fluffiest forum" delusion, even though there's a "sticky" warning for newbies that this might happen that, deep down, you know there's a problem to be resolved here and there.

"Sticking one's head in the sand" is what I think it's called.


Personally, I prefer the approach I attributed to the Doctor: Face one's demons - even if uncomfortable to do so - and never run from them.


"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half"
- Sir Winston Churchill


"A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."
- Gandhi

EDIT: oooo, i especially enjoyed the end bit!

It probably says something negative psychologically, but there is some strange schadenfreude in staging a mock chainsawing of RTD.

[HGFB]

I think there's a pool of sound effects like there are pools of graphics work. I've heard the sound used by Origin in Ultima Online for the deer in loads of stuff including a couple of movies.

It's probably the same for the door sound. It was probably deliberate as well though.

[HGFB]

[skweek]

Apparently, in some of the forum's eyes, you need a "membership card" to the "elite group", before they'll even deem to bother to read your post.


Don't worry. I won't push it any more.

I've worked out the policy: Flood the thread with "change the subject" posts and brush it under the carpet and then pretend to oneself that because this hides the problem, there isn't a problem and carry on with the "fluffiest forum" delusion, even though there's a "sticky" warning for newbies that this might happen that, deep down, you know there's a problem to be resolved here and there.

Nah it's not an elite members group, it's just a lot of us know each other off-line too, so there are other conversations and in-jokes that people don't see. Come to a meet up and you'll see.

The problem that you talk about is just human nature though.

[KlaxonCow]

I think there's a pool of sound effects like there are pools of graphics work. I've heard the sound used by Origin in Ultima Online for the deer in loads of stuff including a couple of movies.

It's probably the same for the door sound. It was probably deliberate as well though.

Yeah, you can hear the horn section from Half-life on a hundred TV shows (it was on the X files for sure and I think on some later Buffy too).

Basically, they are just all dipping into the same "sound effects album", as you say (indeed, the BBC are famous for actually making generic "sound effects" compilations which you can buy. I once myself used a "crowd drinking and shouting in a pub" SFX for "background atmosphere" straight off one of those albums myself).

But, in this case, as you and I are both suspecting, the choice of borrowing specifically a DOOM sound effect might be a case of the sound effects team making a subtle "subliminal message" comment on the writer's originality or something.

[kalmar]

The "sheep baa-ing, distant" sound effect off the BBC Sound Effects Library LP (#18 I think) still shows up on The Archers from time to time

[zip accident]

skweek wrote:

The problem that you talk about is just human nature though.

Hm. Perhaps with a little of this thrown in the mix, for good measure. I think I probably got the link from an old bleatings thread:-

http://www.prometheussociety.org/articl ... iders.html

[KlaxonCow]

The problem that you talk about is just human nature though.

Yes. Absolutely right. It's just human nature and happens everywhere.

So why am I being called "paranoid" above?


But, well, wars are in human nature too. Doesn't mean there's no place emphasising from time to time that wars aren't right.

Greed is part of human nature. Doesn't mean it isn't a problem.

Et cetera.


I understand why it's happening. Otherwise, I would have gotten "paranoid" and then left the group thinking that I was "being picked on" but, no, it is, indeed, just human nature that this happens sometimes. That's why 99.999% of the posts I've made say nothing about it, I've not gone off in a huff and I'm not "paranoid" about it at all. Et cetera, et cetera.

Nevertheless, that doesn't mean not mentioning it when I feel it is happening.

Again, to draw the analogy, wars will inevitably keep happening over the course of human history because, well, humans are idiots. But that doesn't mean that, for example, I should just sit back and accept the Iraq war and say nothing, just because it's "ineviable" that some world leader at some point in time will go to war.

You know, kids are hit by cars and buses every day on the roads. Doesn't mean you just sit there with a box of popcorn and enjoy the show, when a kid stupidly runs out in the road.

Yes, conflict is human nature. As is people's "herd mentality" - moo! - but, you know, doesn't mean you just sit back and watch Jews sent to the gas chambers, commenting "well, it's just human nature that someone might try to commit genocide at some point".


I'm possibly being awkward for voicing a "taboo" which might be uncomfortable, but I'm not being unreasonable nor out of place nor "paranoid" nor anything else.

In fact, the "paranoid" assertion proves my point a little bit.

It is, indeed, human nature to simply call someone "insane" when they might be saying something we don't like to hear, instead of facing the actual problem. Which was basically the point I was driving at.


I'm not "blaming" anyone - I know, in this modern age, that's a bloody first - but just pointing out that, you know, a spade is a spade.

See? Churchill's right. If you get over the "denial" and face the problem then it usually turns out to not be half a big a deal as you thought it was when you were "fearing speaking the taboo".

Yes, it's just human nature. But one of the less desirable aspects of human nature like greed, jealousy and that kind of thing. So, where possible, best not to do it.

There. Take that thought on board when answering other people (and I will try to do the same myself) and that's the problem faced and, hopefully, in time, solved.

Wasn't so bad in the end, was it?


As I'm on a roll with the quotations:

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself"
- Franklin D. Roosevelt




p.s. Yes, I've invoked Godwin's Law above. Delibrately.

[HGFB]

You could take it to its own thread so we don't have to wade through large posts about you being picked on when we want to talk about Doctor Who.

[skweek]

Doctor Who, yeah, Doctor Who.

[HGFB]

Torchwood stuff is allowed to. As is Bonnie Langford porn

[fro]

Pictures of planes?