Football: WORLD CUP 06 and close season/transfer discussion.

[ElfQrin]

It amazes and scares me how people can believe everything it's written on the press or said on the news with no evidence whatsoever.

Well, they're claiming to have used a lip-reader to phonetically relay his comments to an Italian translator. Sounds a lot more scientific than a load of agenda-blurred hearsay, to me...

ALL versions (terrorist, racist comment, death to family, your sister) have allegedly been read on Materazzi's lips by lip readers.

Considering how far the camera was and the side position of the players towards the camera, and the completely different sentences, the only conclusion we can draw is that it's impossible to know what he said by trying to read his lips.

[goldfish]

Considering how far the camera was and the side position of the players towards the camera, and the completely different sentences, the only conclusion we can draw is that it's impossible to know what he said by trying to read his lips.

Can we not also draw the conclusion that whatever he said must have been pretty serious?

Does it really matter exactly what it was said, as it was clearly designed to touch a nerve...?

Simon

[Sickboy]

It amazes and scares me how people can believe everything it's written on the press or said on the news with no evidence whatsoever.

Well, they're claiming to have used a lip-reader to phonetically relay his comments to an Italian translator. Sounds a lot more scientific than a load of agenda-blurred hearsay, to me...

ALL versions (terrorist, racist comment, death to family, your sister) have allegedly been read on Materazzi's lips by lip readers.

Considering how far the camera was and the side position of the players towards the camera, and the completely different sentences, the only conclusion we can draw is that it's impossible to know what he said by trying to read his lips.

Well, you might draw that conclusion, but yeah, I do have enough faith in the BBC's journalistic integrity to accept that they're reporting something that's been carefully confirmed.

[No Name]

Longish, but funny article in The Guardian, summing up the tournament.

"Pringles-flicking twatbluster" = genius

"England's performance in one word: Ikea."

It's full of pithy little comments like that, as well as a ton of praise for the sides and players that did well.

[Loada]

Anyone who's ever played football to a decent level (or any other contact sport for that matter) will know that there are a *lot* of questionable things said "in the heat of battle" as it were. The vast majority of these are extremely personal insults, intended to upset and unsettle members of the opposition. For me, Zidane just lost control - a player like him will get targeted during every match for this sort of verbal abuse and they have to deal with it, it comes with the territory. Like it or loathe it, it's part of the game and it's not something that's publicised, mostly because there is an unspoken rule that "what's said on the pitch, stays on the pitch".
It just looks to me like everyone is desperately trying to excuse Zidane's behaviour - the bottom-line is that it was unacceptable and it was a stone-cold red-card, you just *cannot* do that in any football game, nevermind in the World Cup final.
Flawed genius? Certainly, his footballing skills are beyond question but like so many of his ilk, the mastery of his talent is tempered with the dark side that so often accompanies people who are truly great at what they do. It's sad that it's perhaps the last thing Zidane will do on a pitch, at least at international level. I guess people will forget about it as time goes on and he'll be remember for his footballing exploits more than his fighting technique.

[Jimaroid]

Well, they're claiming to have used a lip-reader to phonetically relay his comments to an Italian translator. Sounds a lot more scientific than a load of agenda-blurred hearsay, to me...

How do they know what language they were speaking? Did they get a French or Italian (or even English or Spanish) lip-reader? Additionally, of course, translation isn't an exact art even in written language. At the sort of resolution available to TV viewers, I don't believe a lip-reader could be certain what language they were conversing in, let-alone what was said.

How about neutrality of lip-reader? The speculation of slurs on Zidane's heritage could have easily planted ideas of conversation into the mind of the lip-reader.

Why aren't people looking to the possibilty that Zidane appeared to have received quite a heavy blow to the head earlier in the game? Could that perhaps have had an affect on his judgement? Who knows? Only Zidane.

Essentially, I don't believe a word of it. All we know is, Zidane behaved like a twat and he was lucky to get away with a redcard and the match ball.

Which comes onto the integrity of the BBC. The way I look at the BBC is that when they're reporting on a subject I know deeply (tech, games, whatever) to see just how fluffed and unsubstantially researched those stories can be, I have little choice but to have less faith in the reports I have less background knowledge in.

[Sickboy]

Well, they're claiming to have used a lip-reader to phonetically relay his comments to an Italian translator. Sounds a lot more scientific than a load of agenda-blurred hearsay, to me...

How do they know what language they were speaking? Did they get a French or Italian (or even English or Spanish) lip-reader? Additionally, of course, translation isn't an exact art even in written language. At the sort of resolution available to TV viewers, I don't believe a lip-reader could be certain what language they were conversing in, let-alone what was said.

How about neutrality of lip-reader? The speculation of slurs on Zidane's heritage could have easily planted ideas of conversation into the mind of the lip-reader.

Why aren't people looking to the possibilty that Zidane appeared to have received quite a heavy blow to the head earlier in the game? Could that perhaps have had an affect on his judgement? Who knows? Only Zidane.

Essentially, I don't believe a word of it. All we know is, Zidane behaved like a twat and he was lucky to get away with a redcard and the match ball.

Which comes onto the integrity of the BBC. The way I look at the BBC is that when they're reporting on a subject I know deeply (tech, games, whatever) to see just how fluffed and unsubstantially researched those stories can be, I have little choice but to have less faith in the reports I have less background knowledge in.

I guess.

I realise I'm being a bit contrary here, but sledging is a cowardly, insidious business and it'd be nice to see it chased down and punished with a bit of intent - particularly if the comments were racially motivated. Then we'd have a clear test-case of how serious FIFA are about snuffing out racism, rather than an eye-catching global villification of an otherwise decent guy who just lost his cool.

[No Name]

Then we'd have a clear test-case of how serious FIFA are about snuffing out racism

I think I can answer that one for you:

"Not very".

[Sickboy]

Then we'd have a clear test-case of how serious FIFA are about snuffing out racism

I think I can answer that one for you:

"Not very".

What's the last uncompromising hammer they brought down on the issue? Something like a two-pound-fifty fine for the Spanish manager?

[Jimaroid]

I realise I'm being a bit contrary here, but sledging is a cowardly, insidious business and it'd be nice to see it chased down and punished with a bit of intent - particularly if the comments were racially motivated. Then we'd have a clear test-case of how serious FIFA are about snuffing out racism, rather than an eye-catching global villification of an otherwise decent guy who just lost his cool.

Oh yeah, undoubtedly. The provocation, racism and headbutting are all unquestionably abhorrent in any sport, let alone the most popular. If there's anyone to be deserving of a red face as a result of all this, it's FIFA.

[No Name]

What's the last uncompromising hammer they brought down on the issue? Something like a two-pound-fifty fine for the Spanish manager?

That's the one I was thinking of. The punishment was something along the lines of "As you were...", whereas a sacking might have been in order. If it's good enough for Ron Atkinson, it's good enough for Luis Aragonés.

[edit] Just googled for it: Aragonés was fined £2,000. Hoorah! If that's not saying No to Racism, what is?

[aureole]

I think they made a strong statement with the sanctions levied against Spain for the monkey chants their fans made during the second-round match against France.

[No Name]

Did they ban them from the next European Championships, then? Or at least order them to play all their home games in neutral countries?

[edit]

And it's not like it's the first time, either.

Perhaps FIFA could implement some of their own "mandatory" rules:

Match suspensions, points deductions and disqualification from competitions are to be deployed by Fifa as possible punishments against acts of racism... Member associations failing to implement them face being banned from international football for two years... The new measures will also apply to this year's World Cup.

[Crystal_sword]

FIFA was excellent at one point.

It was only about Football, never about money.

Now its all about Advertisements and Big Names.

Thats why Zidane got the Player of the tourney.

Their "Say no to Racism" Stunt is all there as a big show. Its a shame, as so much can be done with their Influence.

Im telling, andy Racism, should result in a 10 year ban from Foorball for that Club/Country responsible for Racism.

That Should shut up most of those Idiots hurling insults at anyhting different

[No Name]

Well, whatever tariff they set (and personally I think 10 years is too much), the whole issue pisses me off for two reasons:

1) FIFA talks big about racism, but acts soft when it comes to punishment. Why have the possible sanctions I quoted above then issue fines that wouldn't make a dent in a modern player's weekly wage?

2) English teams were banned from Europe for years for persistent acts of hooliganism. As bloody irritating as that was, you could at least argue that it worked, and that the hooligan problem is now manageable. If they're as serious as they claim about saying No to Racism, why not similarly punish persistent offenders?