Fuck this place

[Snakey]

Ummmm Gird Wars 2 and Grid Assault are lovingly created PC games, homebrew too and free.

...and ? Doesn't change the fact that it is, and always was, a direct copy of a game that had just been released, and nobody should be surprised about what happened. If they were, then they really need to learn how the world works.

[PVB]

I said at the time (and got a fair bit of grief for it IIRC) that I thought that Geom Wars clone was a bit dodgy because it was cloning a game that had only just been released. I know I'd be gutted if someone did that to one of *my* XBLA games.

Maybe there are plans for a PC release of Geom Wars - and if so I can't think of MS being the bad guys if they wish to ensure that the PC verion that gets released is the *actual* version of the game and not some clone.

Simply because a clone is released "for free" does not make it OK, if the original creators of the game that has been cloned have their own plans for a release.

Like I said, I'd be gutted if it happened to me, and I felt quite uncomfortable about it when for a while the whold Grid Wars appreciation society appeared to move en masse to Yakyak :/.

Maybe someone should start a thread on whether all game clones are bad?

Oh look:

http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?t=56655

[Yak]

I said at the time (and got a fair bit of grief for it IIRC) that I thought that Geom Wars clone was a bit dodgy because it was cloning a game that had only just been released. I know I'd be gutted if someone did that to one of *my* XBLA games.

Maybe there are plans for a PC release of Geom Wars - and if so I can't think of MS being the bad guys if they wish to ensure that the PC verion that gets released is the *actual* version of the game and not some clone.

Simply because a clone is released "for free" does not make it OK, if the original creators of the game that has been cloned have their own plans for a release.

Like I said, I'd be gutted if it happened to me, and I felt quite uncomfortable about it when for a while the whold Grid Wars appreciation society appeared to move en masse to Yakyak :/.

Maybe someone should start a thread on whether all game clones are bad?

Oh look:

http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?t=56655

The specific case we are talking about involves a game being cloned *within weeks of its release*. I can't go along with the whole "yay, woo, it's free!" vibe which seemed to accompany that, and to completely ignore the fact that someone's IP had been had clean away without any thought that it might not exactly be cricket so to do.

[PVB]

The specific case we are talking about involves a game being cloned *within weeks of its release*. I can't go along with the whole "yay, woo, it's free!" vibe which seemed to accompany that, and to completely ignore the fact that someone's IP had been had clean away without any thought that it might not exactly be cricket so to do.

I didn't say that, but feel free to comment in the other thread if you want.

[Alarm]

I said at the time (and got a fair bit of grief for it IIRC) that I thought that Geom Wars clone was a bit dodgy because it was cloning a game that had only just been released. I know I'd be gutted if someone did that to one of *my* XBLA games.

Maybe there are plans for a PC release of Geom Wars - and if so I can't think of MS being the bad guys if they wish to ensure that the PC verion that gets released is the *actual* version of the game and not some clone.

Simply because a clone is released "for free" does not make it OK, if the original creators of the game that has been cloned have their own plans for a release.

Like I said, I'd be gutted if it happened to me, and I felt quite uncomfortable about it when for a while the whold Grid Wars appreciation society appeared to move en masse to Yakyak :/.

Yeah, I remember the discussion on IRC, it seems only a few people actually cared, including me. Free != always a good thing...

[gilesgoat]

I said at the time (and got a fair bit of grief for it IIRC) that I thought that Geom Wars clone was a bit dodgy because it was cloning a game that had only just been released. I know I'd be gutted if someone did that to one of *my* XBLA games.

Maybe there are plans for a PC release of Geom Wars - and if so I can't think of MS being the bad guys if they wish to ensure that the PC verion that gets released is the *actual* version of the game and not some clone.

Simply because a clone is released "for free" does not make it OK, if the original creators of the game that has been cloned have their own plans for a release.

Like I said, I'd be gutted if it happened to me, and I felt quite uncomfortable about it when for a while the whold Grid Wars appreciation society appeared to move en masse to Yakyak :/.

Maybe someone should start a thread on whether all game clones are bad?

Oh look:

http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?t=56655

Well .. if you put it this way .. let's say so "you can do whatever you want
and whatever you feel is right/ok for you".

This does not mean at all what you do could be perceived and/or
considered "right" for anyone and that anyone will approve what you do.

Clones .. sure, they always been for one reason or another.

Who ever said that "they all been right to be" ?

Anyway, there's always "a better way" and "a worse way" to do things.

"The better way" when you do something that is so similar to another
thing would be to get in touch with the original author and ask FIRST.

Or, as I said, you can do whatever you want, getting all the consequences of the case.

I could do tomorrow a clone of Windows, some people would think I
am evil, some people would think I am a saint, MS will probably sue me.

If I just look at the thing "from all the sides" whatever happends I could
simply say "no wonder", if I did not want any troubles then I would
have better to read a book instead

Said that I'd say "do whatever you want but be prepared to take the
consequences of your actions".

[Peet]

I said at the time (and got a fair bit of grief for it IIRC) that I thought that Geom Wars clone was a bit dodgy because it was cloning a game that had only just been released. I know I'd be gutted if someone did that to one of *my* XBLA games.

Maybe there are plans for a PC release of Geom Wars - and if so I can't think of MS being the bad guys if they wish to ensure that the PC verion that gets released is the *actual* version of the game and not some clone.

Simply because a clone is released "for free" does not make it OK, if the original creators of the game that has been cloned have their own plans for a release.

Like I said, I'd be gutted if it happened to me, and I felt quite uncomfortable about it when for a while the whold Grid Wars appreciation society appeared to move en masse to Yakyak :/.

All I know is there's no way I can afford a 360...


Other than that, what Rod_S said, basically.

[thalamus]

My 2 wonderful cents:

The way I see it, if I'd done or said something that was hypocritical, I'd expect an email or a PM or something tactful. If, of course, it was actually remotely important. And if, of course, I actually *was* being a hypocrite.

The initial "Biggest Hypocrite Ever" thread was nothing but pointless and stupid. I didn't think YakYak did public persecution. I hope that's still the case?

Therefore, it's entirely reasonable for the Rev to a) respond, and b) fuck off.

I've seen countless people - people who I once respected - jump on the "I hate the Rev" bandwagon and put the boot in many times, often just for the hell of it.

The reason *I* always rated Stu, and still do, is the fact that he sticks to his guns. I don't think he deliberately tries to be different or controversial; he just *is*. He puts his case well, and he stands his ground, and whether *you* think he's right or wrong, he's entertaining, and his stuff is always thought-provoking. People have different viewpoints.

I think that there are members of this 'fluffy' forum that really need to exercise some restraint. If the sole purpose of your post or thread is to try and make someone look like a twat, type what you need to then close your browser before clicking "submit".

[Jamesac]

Awww.... Come on back Stu! People get pissy worldwide, might as well tolerate the occaisonal bout of it here as anywhere else. The fireworks are more trouble than they're worth only if you take it seriously.

I decided I could live with the Gridwars clone issue because I already owned Geometry Wars 2 and Geometry Wars 1 from PGR2. Dues are paid, so it's fine for me to kick back and have a good time with someone else's take on it.

If I was to play MarkInc's morality police, I'd say that the graphics needed a complete overhaul but everything else is fine. Change the visual style and you've got an arcade twin-stick shooter with a haunting familiarity. Leave it as-is and you've got a C&D from MS that I'm really not going to hold against them.

James

[fraggle]

The specific case we are talking about involves a game being cloned *within weeks of its release*. I can't go along with the whole "yay, woo, it's free!" vibe which seemed to accompany that, and to completely ignore the fact that someone's IP had been had clean away without any thought that it might not exactly be cricket so to do.

I thought long and hard about whether or not to say this. I've never met you Yak (well, we have but I was 14, it was 1984, and you won't remember) and we've only spoken on the phone once when I was absolutely stoked to be able to help you get the PocketPC games working on the iPaq. I've got to stress though that I don't mean this badly.

How is Grid Wars, which was free (and I only found out about it today), any worse a situation than say, Llamatron? Did you pay Williams a license fee?

Again, I'm just curious and definately not trying to stoke an already raging fire.

[fdave]

How is Grid Wars, which was free (and I only found out about it today), any worse a situation than say, Llamatron? Did you pay Williams a license fee?

Again, I'm just curious and definately not trying to stoke an already raging fire.

One big difference is that Yak made an effort to change the graphics and sound and add something new. Remember those llama samples?

Another big difference is the time frame. (10 years versus less than a year)

And yet another big difference is that the game wasn't being sold on another platform at the time of release.

And yet another big difference is that the writers of the original didn't complain (or did they... Yak?)

[fraggle]

Ok, point taken. I disagree that Llamatron wasn't around at the time of Robotron though. I think a big part of Llamatron's popularity was that it was the only decent Robotron ...um....homage out there at the time.

But, I definately see the other differences and how that situation differs from the grid wars one. Fair point. Thanks

[Jamesac]

I can answer this one.

Llamatron and Robotron share many similarities, but enough differences to be their own seperate games. Robotron was twin-stick shooter minimalism, with one form of fire power and two objectives of survive and collect/defend. Llamatron had a good variety of powerups, graphics that were thematically similar but very different, two-player options, and a much wider variety of enemies.

Basically, the differences between Geometry Wars and Gridwars are subtle, and Gridwars is clearly Geometry Wars with a few (excellent) twists. Robotron, on the other hand, is the base on which Yak built an entirely new game, one different enough that it could be sold as its own product.

-edit- Took too long typing.

James

[fdave]

If the sole purpose of your post or thread is to try and make someone look like a twat, type what you need to then close your browser before clicking "submit".

Surely that goes for everything... except when that person is a twat?

By the way, I wasn't actually pointing out that he was a twat, but rather a hypocrite: actively supporting copies of other peoples games while trying to close down copies of his own games.

Why on earth would anyone argue otherwise?


And I question the freedom of speech policy people are talking about... is it freedom of speech, unless that freedom of speech makes the Rev throw his toys out of the pram and therfore not post interesting comments on this forum.

Surely that's the dumbest "no freedom of speech" policy ever?

If I think the Rev is acting like a hypocrite, sorry but I'm gonna say so, and he can respond!
If he thinks I'm an 'xyz', he's free to post that as well, as long as I'm free to respond too!

[namor7]

Rev had some really good things to say from time to time. I'll miss that.

But he was a prick most of the time, I guess.