Fuck this place

[Snakey]

You missed the point entirely there Rod. I don't much care if he likes it or doesn't like it. But all he does in that review is go on about things that pretty much every game does and lists them as a reason why Tomb Raider is shite, as well as contradicting himself in a couple of places. He exaggerates things that aren't a problem at all and makes them seem like a massive deal. He says stuff that just isn't true, either because he couldn't find enough to complain about, or is just so crap at the game that he couldn't do something that everybody else didn't seem to have a problem with.

There are in fact a few things wrong with the game that pretty much every other reviewer has pointed out. Not Stu. Probably because he didn't play it enough to actually find out.

In short, it's clear he went into this having already decided what he was going to say, and was just looking for things he could take a shot at.

That isn't a review.

[Yak]

Having been on the receiving end of some pretty mediocre, ill-informed, lazy bits of tosh from Mr. Stu, I think I can safely say that I don't think he's "all that" as a journo, myself.

I don't wish any ill on the man, and his unfortunate circumstances are, well, unfortunate; but I for one will appreciate a bit more peace and a bit less bickering round here.

Divorcing yourself from your own artistic endeavors and offering them up for criticism is difficult, especially your/Llamasoft games in particular as they're such an extension of your own vision and personal ethos. I can understand that. Have you ever strongly disagreed with Stu's opinion about other games though? I'm not trying to be a cunt for the sake of it here, just wondering how much your self defense mechanism is kicking in, as the Rev has been very vocal about the Llamasoft games he's loved as much as the ones he's been critical of. To me he's a fan of games, bottom line.

Well I think it's fairly well known that I disagreed strongly with his opinions on Katamari Damacy (peace be upon it). But in general I find his tone is often grating and at times insufferably smug. I find it wearing to read at best. It is occasionally amusing, granted, but equally can be simply annoying as well. He tends to ascribe blame and ill-motives willy nilly when he gets annoyed with things too - the first time I ever even heard of the guy was when he was slagging me and my shareware reg people off up and down the Edge boards with considerable vitriol when upon investigation the problems he was having were down to errors on his end.

Knowing that I tend to mistrust a lot of his "passion".

[Rod_S]

In short, it's clear he went into this having already decided what he was going to say, and was just looking for things he could take a shot at.

That isn't a review.

I thought this paragrpah in particular was woth more than a million other Tomb Raider reviews:

The main reason that Tomb Raider Legend is so insultingly easy, and so crassly inconsistent, is because its publishers want you to see all of the fancy graphics they spent all that money on as quickly as possible, and then go and buy another £40 game. There's almost no replay value, nothing to discover or unlock except a pointless Time Trial mode, and the levels are so linear and restricted that there's nothing to go back and explore for.

The "gameplay" is only there to delay you for just long enough as to be decent, because what this really is is a movie. All the developers want to do is tell you their third-rate, B-movie story, acted out in terrible, stilted dialogue scripted by videogames programmers, and wow you with a few big explosions and shapely thighs, just like any other Hollywood blockbuster.

This is the kind of thing I want from games journalism. Fuck the traditional definition of "reviews". This is thought provoking, incisive, balls-out and absolutely bang-on. It just transcends the usual shit we get to read about gaming, and Tomb Raider just happened to be a perfect catalyst for those thoughts and opinion. This is why he's so good as a journalist.

[Snakey]

..except it's complete bollocks. Guess what I was still playing last night.

There IS a lot of stuff to 'discover and unlock'. There's more replay value in this game than anything I've played in years.

Even if that were the case, it doesn't excuse the rest of it, which is just total nitpicky bullshit. Example:

In the next level (a village in Peru) you eventually find yourself in a flashback cut-scene. Except - sweet mother of Jeebus - this is a playable flashback cut-scene.

the game forces you to plough through a dark, crappy and tedious section from which you KNOW Lara survives - because you've just been playing her ten years later

Apart from the fact that that section isn't particularly crappy or tedious, but I'll let that slide... Just how many games have you EVER played in which you didn't KNOW the main character was going to survive until the end of the game? I mean, for fucks sake. You'd think he'd never played a game before. What is the point of that weak, pathetic dig?

If you're going to insist he's one of the best journalists around you really need to find something better than this tripe to back it up with. I *know* he's written some good stuff. But this isn't it.

[sarabob]

Just like to add my support to Rod_S for supporting the rev and all that.

The rev isn't always right, much as he would like to think so (/me ducks incoming thunderbolt...), and he can be quick to anger (recalling the whole xbox live connection shenanegans). But even misplaced and wrong passion is more fun to read than mindless boring journalism.

IMHO, we should just beatify most of the YS & AP people anyway and be done with it. Hell, I'm sure you can get a sainthood off the internet these days, and if Saint Sandy can get one then I'm sure they can have theirs too.

[Zen-Chan]

I've stayed away from this topic so far but I'll just say this:

I've been reading Stu's work for years, and - while I understand how some people can be offended by his confrontational tone during heated arguments here - I honestly believe his heart is in the right place and he is simply an extremely dedicated gamer who seeks to stand up for what he thinks is right. I fail to see what is wrong with that.

[Bog]

I honestly believe his heart is in the right place and he is simply an extremely dedicated gamer who seeks to stand up for what he thinks is right. I fail to see what is wrong with that.

Even stipulating the first, I can't get on with "If you don't agree with me, you're not just wrong - you're fucking stupid" and "If you don't like what I've said, there's something wrong with you."

It's never nice when anyone's hounded out of a place - been there m'self - but Campbell's milk-of-human-kindness cylinder seems to be a bit empty, as a rule.

[leekfiend]

Well I think Giles is justified in not caring too much for the Rev on account of the Rev having had a sig for months which was there for no other purpose except to upset Giles, actually. I got fucking fed up of seeing that thing every time the fucker posted.,

And yet... and yet, no-one deleted it for him. Or banned him.

Which is why I love this place

Compare and contrast with another (thankfully much smaller) forum, which I visit (or, I should say, used to visit) from time to time. Always over-moderated even to begin with ("ooh! this is spammy*! clicky clicky delete button"), it suffered a change of admin earlier this year and now is just a totally unusable pisstake of its former self. The new admin seems to think that rubbish like "word filters" was put into forum software to actually be used, and generally just prides himself on being as much of a dick as possible.

I love this forum

* not actual spam, just not 100% ENTIRELY NAILED TO THE TOPIC AT HAND

[teamonkey]

The rev isn't always right, much as he would like to think so (/me ducks incoming thunderbolt...), and he can be quick to anger (recalling the whole xbox live connection shenanegans). But even misplaced and wrong passion is more fun to read than mindless boring journalism.

Oh definitely.

[Rod_S]

Well I think it's fairly well known that I disagreed strongly with his opinions on Katamari Damacy (peace be upon it). But in general I find his tone is often grating and at times insufferably smug. I find it wearing to read at best. It is occasionally amusing, granted, but equally can be simply annoying as well. He tends to ascribe blame and ill-motives willy nilly when he gets annoyed with things too - the first time I ever even heard of the guy was when he was slagging me and my shareware reg people off up and down the Edge boards with considerable vitriol when upon investigation the problems he was having were down to errors on his end.

Knowing that I tend to mistrust a lot of his "passion".

I remember that Edge thread, and even though it was obviously and quite justifiably immensely frustrating for you, for sheer entertainment value as a punter it was a blinder. And that's the thing with Stu, even when he's so obviously on a wind-up mission and over-stating things for effect, he's always brilliant value for money. But I love people like Jeffrey Bernhard, stubborn, opinionated but literate and highly entertaining, maybe not the kind of person you'd want to be on the business end of a verbal kicking from, but immensely enjoyable to read if you enjoy that kind of gnarly, aggressive and confrontational style. He even started using smiley's on here for people who didn't quite get his style, something I never thought I'd see him do.

Snakey, this ain't really about picking holes in the Rev's TRL review. I thought the game was total shit, but that's not why I enjoyed Stu's review. It was just so entertaining and concluded with what most of us have been thinking about the games industry for years.

He should be embraced as a spokeperson for gaming, not sidelined as an outsider.

[Rod_S]

Even stipulating the first, I can't get on with "If you don't agree with me, you're not just wrong - you're fucking stupid" and "If you don't like what I've said, there's something wrong with you."

Didn't his aggressive delivery just crack you up though? Maybe it's just me, but I used to roar with genuine mirth at some of his responses to people on here. The fact that he was usually right was just the sweet icing on the cake.

[Bog]

Didn't his aggressive delivery just crack you up though?

Honestly? No. It really did not. Even when it was pointed at someone else, I'd get this huge urge to scream at him to wind his neck in. I don't like seeing people belittled any more than I like being belittled my own self.

Aside from anything else, games are different for everyone. You said you had a wonderful time wresting with the Halo level "Into the Belly of the Beast" when you first grav-lift aboard the Tru7h and Reconcilliation, and that it took you delicious ages on Legendary. It took me one try. Does that make it shit for me? No. Just because I'm naturally good at FPS games, I found it realitively easy to smack down.

I respect the experience you had, even if it was entirely different from mine. If I took the Campbell Modus, I'd just say you were shit and shouldn't be playing it. Or I'd say that it was shit and you shouldn't be playing it. Either way, I'd be out of line.

Because - bottom line - I ain't the boss o'you, and he ain't the boss o'me, and I don't find calling people stupid or worthless or lazy funny. At worst, I'll see it as sad truth - not an amusing way to spend time.

But you're welcome to enjoy his style, and all - because unlike him I can live and let live.

Anyway. Said me bit, I'll be on me way.

[Rod_S]

It took me one try.

In your fucking DREAMS!

[Yak]

Well as one actually on the receiving end of his drivel I can tell you it gets old fucking quickly and I don't give a flying toss if others find it "amusing" when he goes off on yet another ill-conceived attack on those who are *actually* working to keep some kind of passion in gaming, not by just flapping their gums and posturing but by actually *trying to make stuff to standards that they believe in*.

If Stu was in charge of any degree of games journalism it'd probably just make me want to give the fuck up trying because I know he'd be waiting with some idiotic crap about reversed controls and more pissy, pointless grandstanding.

[Bog]

In your fucking DREAMS!

Er, no. Legendary, Belly of the Beast, plasma pistol on charge to the sword-monkeys, doubletap with the Marine Pistol. Down they go. Nade and zaps to clean up the Jackals and Grunts, wait for the Hunters, bag the Active Camo then stick a plazzie to their smashing Jaffa orangey bit. Bang, done.

It's really not a problem.