Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by PVB »

As Giles is reading this thread, just a heads up that the Llamasoft web site still needs some fixes. :wink:

On the right-hand side menu;

Space Giraffe
Llamasoft Shop

Links don't work.

Media: * 80's Trade Show (mp4)
File not found.

On the top menu;

Blog
Shop
LS Tech Support

Links don't work.

Downloads:
Neon Movies and Colourspace Movie
Files not found.

http://www.llamasoft.co.uk/press.php
Has missing links in the right-hand menu, not sure if they ever were working links though.
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by gilesgoat »

Now Space Giraffe 'as it is' would be quite a hell of a nightmare to re-port it to anything else.

Space Giraffe is lot more HW demanding than GRR and was specifically designed to work well on the 360 "at a couple
of screen resolutions" , it could probably be better totally RE-DONE, not ported from scratch using the new engine rather
than trying to adapt that existing code on iPad/whatever, it relies "quite much" on GPU computational power especially ROP power ( shader capabilities ).

I would not see it going more than 30 fps IF you'd be "very lucky" on a thing like the iPad .. very lucky ..

It would be much better be re-done using the new engine and new tecniques YET .. Space Giraffe is a bit of a
"critical technologic point" .. in Space Giraffe we experimented with some techniques that I think "they are awesome" yet
quite a lot of people did not like them much ( too psychedelic for them ).

In GRR we deliberately avoided the use of such tecniques for various reasons, one to make the thing "a bit wider appeal"
and second to make the thing "less HW demanding".

If you run SG at 640x480 or 800x600 .. you are good "with any crap almost" .. but the moment you begin to go higer than
that the thing scales exponentially .. at "I am MR I am sick about super high rez" you need also to be "I am MR I have a
fucking turbo graphic card to play that thing smooth".

Note we are still NOT and I mean NOT touching "shader 3.0 technology" or further because if we do our users base is
going to be thinner and thinner, there's some 3.0 stuff in GRR "as an option" ( and in the SG PC version ) but we have to
"chop" our hands off certain things otherwise "yes super cool but really not for anyone".

Then definitely FORGET *ANY* portable device of any kind or laptop also probably "nothing running on batteries would do" :|

It's getting a bit "hard" to work on different lines of products because from one side there is "lot" of "experimental turbo
stuff" we have in mind and we want to do but "the more turbo is, the more demanding it gets" the time you spend to create
some "turbo cool things" on those "little portable devices" is BIG and you end up in getting something "yes but no but ..."

Which, to me is quite frustrating cause "it's not what I had in mind to do or how it should look".

Space Giraffe IMHO is "a very interesting point where things been experimented" and really there is "lot more than can be done", IMHO, honestly "it could be even MUCH MORE psychedelic and push even more into some 'boundaries of human capabilities and preception' ".

"I can't see what's going on" .. yes you can't see it with "normal eyes" but once you are "in the zone" everything becomes
clear .. now that is 'step one' now we want "the second zone" .. "the third zone" .. and so on ;)

A bit like "Inception" you have to go deeper and deeper :wink:

Anyway "porting" "no thanks" "re doing it again ( with new tech ) " maybe ..

I would not touch that code again "as it is" because as I just see it I go AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH.

Yes it works, yes it's nice but .. "we can do much better now" :D

Don't port it, you'll go crazy :wink:
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by gilesgoat »

You are touching a delicate issue here, "I know very well about all this and I did NOT forget about it or tried to solve it".

I'll make it short and I won't say more than this but I "simply" need to find a new server to hold that stuff, I already
got some suggestions about where to look about, set up evertything again in there, check the status of the licenses/things
about the shop, get in touch with the DNS people and change everything.

In short "everything you don't see it's lost, it won't be re-made it will start from NEW as soon as I have a few time for this"
which is really going to happen "soon" because I do have new materials and things to put up.

Give me a bit more time I'll try my best to fix it all up I have to find new hosting and new management and perform this
"transition" as smooth as possible ( if possible ).

Don't worry, it will be done, then I'll maybe ask you for some material to put up again.

Giles.

PVB wrote:As Giles is reading this thread, just a heads up that the Llamasoft web site still needs some fixes. :wink:

On the right-hand side menu;

Space Giraffe
Llamasoft Shop

Links don't work.

Media: * 80's Trade Show (mp4)
File not found.

On the top menu;

Blog
Shop
LS Tech Support

Links don't work.

Downloads:
Neon Movies and Colourspace Movie
Files not found.

http://www.llamasoft.co.uk/press.php
Has missing links in the right-hand menu, not sure if they ever were working links though.
Giles the billy goat
"Baa"
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by bcass »

PVB wrote:
bcass wrote:Space Giraffe could work great with touch controls, with webs appropriately designed so fingers don't get in the way.
Easily done:

Image
I still think certain webs would need to be redesigned/omitted. It wouldn't be much fun getting to the end of your touch bar on looped webs.
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by Harlequin »

gilesgoat wrote:(*) actually was to read PDF and occasional internet browsing and listen to music and it excelles in all those 3 functions :)
I recently bought a Kindle that can do all of that for less than £150.
Emoticon and contraction free since... quite a while ago.
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by bcass »

gilesgoat wrote:Now Space Giraffe 'as it is' would be quite a hell of a nightmare to re-port it to anything else.

*snip*
I wouldn't worry too much about this. I don't think anybody expects a handheld portable version to be exactly the same as a console/PC version. I think most of us would be happy to have the core game with much simpler/less CPU-intensive backgrounds. Even if you do get a decent approximation of Neon running in your iPod/iPhone game(s), you need to take into account if it's pushing the hardware a lot, because if it is, you're going to kill battery time. Take a look at Dodonpachi Ressurection: looks great, so much going on, but it's a battery killer and sort of defeats the concept of mobile gaming.
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by skip »

Harlequin wrote:I recently bought a Kindle that can do all of that for less than £150.
But I don't think it would run Neon or any new Llamasoft games very well...

So, Neon being ported to iPad and (presumably) iPhone. And Yak's stuff from (seemingly) ages ago that was running on iPhone was shown here and on Toucharcade. So will we be looking for games or a Neon visualiser to work with the iTunes library or both or none of the above? I'm keen for whatever you guys make and I'm sure info will be released when appropriate...but I am a slightly impatient / nosey sod (either or all of the above).
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by PVB »

bcass wrote: I still think certain webs would need to be redesigned/omitted. It wouldn't be much fun getting to the end of your touch bar on looped webs.
It's not gonna happen, but my idea would be the movement baa would be 'elastic', returning the spot to the centre when released and it'd move the giraffe faster the further left/right you moved your finger. :)
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by Oaf »

ThetaReactor wrote: And a flash version, too? That'd be perfect, what with Froyo finally coming into general use...
There's a flash version of GR++ already (last time I touched it I did a quick Flash 10 version, with all the original effects in - here), but Flash on mobile is nowhere near good enough to cope with such a beast.
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by Misfit »

Harlequin wrote:
gilesgoat wrote:(*) actually was to read PDF and occasional internet browsing and listen to music and it excelles in all those 3 functions :)
I recently bought a Kindle that can do all of that for less than £150.
Hmm. I love my new Kindle, but would rather tear my eyes out than do serious pdf reading on it over the iPad. The same with internet browsing and the music function is weak too.

Don't get me wrong, I think the kindle is an amazing book reader, book shop, paper content consumption device with some nice extras in an amazing form factor.
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by gilesgoat »

skip wrote:
Harlequin wrote:I recently bought a Kindle that can do all of that for less than £150.
But I don't think it would run Neon or any new Llamasoft games very well...

So, Neon being ported to iPad and (presumably) iPhone. And Yak's stuff from (seemingly) ages ago that was running on iPhone was shown here and on Toucharcade. So will we be looking for games or a Neon visualiser to work with the iTunes library or both or none of the above? I'm keen for whatever you guys make and I'm sure info will be released when appropriate...but I am a slightly impatient / nosey sod (either or all of the above).
Neon for iPad/iPhone/PC *IS* in work, it's a completely *NEW* redesign with new technical stuff and a completely different
mechanism and philosophy, it's coming along pretty well but it's also quite a tasksome of the not-so-well-working old concepts
been thrown away and re-created new from scratch.

Particular effort is being put into something "simple to use yet really powerful", as it was the original Neon was more or less
"unusueable for most" and with much more possibilities ( given the enormous totally unrestricted parameter/operators space )
to create "not so good looking things" rather than good ones.

This time, "is all different" the way you create things is all different plus it has a number of features that we always wanted
"one day we should put in" but never been done so far that once we started to put them in literally did open "another
set of unknown universes never seen before".

I won't reveal much of this new thing, because it's still lot and all in a "working phase" but for example one of the things
that always been "not very good" in all the previos original Neon was the opportunity once you got into "something"
that "quite looks ok" to say "ok what now if I just touch a bit of this ? .. hmm no, I should go back and try something else " ..

You could have done it, but it wasn't easy to be done, in some cases it was easy to "loose the picture" because you
had to go back/forth individual modules and pages to touch this and that and then back and forth again to maybe touch
something else.

Now you don't have this problem any more, you can do this kind of thing "in a snap" and anytime there's something you
like/don't like you can always go "back and forth" fine tuning the thing until you get "what you wanted".

Then there's fuck lot more "shite" you can do :wink:

Everything is designed "very easy to be used" theorectically "you don't need to read any manual to make it work".

The only "problem" we found so far you can get "totally lost" in playing with one single thing for hours and hourse because
"just one thing, allows you to get out so much stuff the moment you play with it" :lol:

Again despite some mechanisms are "intuitively simple" the kind of behaviours and outputs you can get just putting together
a couple of things can be "mind boggling" it's getting "quite easy" to get into that threshold between "order and chaos explosion" and control it with a high degree of finesse.

Once I spent 1 hour "moving around a pretty weird fractal", stuff you haven't seen in those fractal books .. one of the first
questions was "how this thing is coming out like that ?" ..

Then after 1 hour or so I got the point I was thinking "I KNOW how this fractal works" I was thinking "I want to see this now"
and sure enough "I was getting there" it was like "I got it".

We were both thinking "this is stuff Mandelbrot did not see not even in his wildest dreams" let alone fractals like those but
also being able "to shape them the way you want" by moving a finger ..

And this is just ONE module .. we have lot more to go ..
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by gilesgoat »

Have I killed the audience :?:
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by bcass »

:lol:

No, I think we all just wait patiently!
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by PVB »

gilesgoat wrote:Have I killed the audience :?:
Nah, we're just sitting, waiting for something to turn up in the App Store. :wink: 8)
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Re: Gridrunner Revolution on ipad?

Post by gilesgoat »

Perche' in questo momento NON RIVO A COMBINAR UNA MADONNA DEL )(&$()@&#$(*#@
.. per via de' 'sto maledetto raffreddor che me sta' fasendo diventar DEFICIENTE !

*cough* *cough* *cough* *cough* *cough* *cough* *cough* *cough* \*cough* \
*cough* *cough* *cough* *caff* *caff**caff* *caff* *caff* *caff* *gaps*
*gasp* *sniffle* *sniffle* *sniffle* *cough*



.. I am dying ..
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