EU referendum are you in or out

[gilesgoat]

To date I still HAVE NOT really understood what was doing the EU SO BAD to UK making the UK wanting to leave.

Apart maybe that thing to paying money for the Greece debt.

What were the real reasons for leaving ? If there were really any ?

Wasn't UK economy going well while in EU ?

[(o)(o)]

To date I still HAVE NOT really understood what was doing the EU SO BAD to UK making the UK wanting to leave.

Apart maybe that thing to paying money for the Greece debt.

What were the real reasons for leaving ? If there were really any ?

Wasn't UK economy going well while in EU ?

Immigrunts, espeically muslom ones (regardless of where born) 99% of whom are child grooming Jihadis / Sharia law
Banana and fruit shape.
"Brussels makes decisions on UK"
I am A WHIETE BRITISH CRIHSITAN MAN WW2 / CRICKET / THE EMPIRE

Stuff like has nothing to do with the real world

[Rhythm]

To date I still HAVE NOT really understood what was doing the EU SO BAD to UK making the UK wanting to leave.

Apart maybe that thing to paying money for the Greece debt.

What were the real reasons for leaving ? If there were really any ?

Wasn't UK economy going well while in EU ?

Foreigners, and being "told what to do" by foreigners.

I'm 41, only ever lived in the UK and I've only ever seen the media portray the EU as a net-negative prospect. The "negatives" of the EU are made up, exaggerated, shouted about, loudly, and the positives are proclaimed to have been thought up and implemented by UK policy-makers.

Born in the 70s, child of the 80s, euro bullshit is second only to how much shitty football coverage we see. "We used to be rulers of the empire! We won a football competition decades ago! We led the world in invention and innovation!!!". We were always taught irrelevant shit about the past rather than ever taking stock of where we actually want to be in the future.

In the meantime our comedy was filled with Nazi towel-stealer jokes about Germany and horrible French accents.

The problem with Europe (and by extension, the EU) was always that IT WASN'T BRITAIN. If you want to understand this, Al Murray's pub landlord is an amazing send-up of the shite we were told about Europe on a daily basis.

Then in the 2000s, 11th September happened. And over the next few years (rather unbelievably) the notion of being a "Muslim terrorist immigrant" got mixed into the Europe/EU debate. "Free movement means these horrible people can get into Europe at the less well protected borders of Greece, Hungary, Romania and then they walk into Britain unobstructed - we literally can't do anything to keep them out!".

All of this might be total bullcrap but it's a potted brief on some of the shit we've been fed in this country.

The stuff around the *global* financial crash and bailing out Greece.... I don't think that was a factor. In Britain the *global* financial crash was almost 100% placed squarely on the shoulders of MPs who took the piss somewhat when claiming expenses. So we got reports of how we "needed" austerity because Labour had "left the country in a mess". Sub-prime lending almost never got a look in on the news.

[phattslagg]

^^truth^^

[(o)(o)]

Then in the 2000s, 11th September happened. And over the next few years (rather unbelievably) the notion of being a "Muslim terrorist immigrant" got mixed into the Europe/EU debate. "Free movement means these horrible people can get into Europe at the less well protected borders of Greece, Hungary, Romania and then they walk into Britain unobstructed - we literally can't do anything to keep them out!".

[snaff]

To date I still HAVE NOT really understood what was doing the EU SO BAD to UK making the UK wanting to leave.

Apart maybe that thing to paying money for the Greece debt.

What were the real reasons for leaving ? If there were really any ?

Wasn't UK economy going well while in EU ?

I don't think anybody's too worried about paying for Greek debt per se. Greece is the canary in the coal mine, given its economic profile and small size. It's proof that the mechanisms underlying the EU project are fundamentally flawed, and that the EU authorities are incapable of addressing problems as they arise.

The Euro necessarily has to sit at a price between the ideal for Germany and the ideal for Greece. It's too weak for Germany and too strong for Greece. German exports are too cheap and Greek exports are too expensive. So Greece imports debt, not because they are feckless but because of the mathematics. Likewise Germany exports goods not because they are industrious.

When the crisis hit it saw the Greek people blamed and punished. The central banks bought assets so that unproductive, wealth-destroying activities could continue. Germany is owed a trillion Euros that will never be paid back. The markets are currently priced as though it will.

The UK economy is doing as badly as the rest of the world. Crisis-level zero percent and negative interest rates are the norm forcing ordinary people along with their pension funds to chase massively risky, overpriced investments and assets.

[merman]

I can understand a rule saying we're not allowed to have our own independent trade deals whilst we are a member of the EU. But not allowing us to negotiate future deals with other countries in advance of leaving, so we at least have deals ready to go one we've left and don't have to start from scratch, is ridiculous. I'd imagine the only reason there's no exception to the rules for this particular situation is because they never anticipated that this particular situation would arise.

Actually we are negotiations no and working on trade deals.

But when one of the leading negotiators is disgraced former minister who somehow got back into Cabinet Liam Fox, and new Brexit Minister Dominic Rabb threatening not to pay the EU exit bill (it's not a divorce payment, we OWE the EU that money), it means that the UK's bargaining position is very poor.

25,000 jobs at risk in tourism if we leave with No Deal.
Cheese, milk and other dairy products to increase massively in price after Brexit as we cannot produce enough milk in the UK.
The pound falling again against the Euro and Dollar - despite the interest rate rise - thanks to disgraced former minister who somehow got back into Cabinet Liam Fox saying No Deal is now more likely (60/40 according to him).

Brexit is the shit gift that keeps on pumping out shit all over our own shoes.

[snaff]

The pound's been dropping since the 80s, it's a secular market trend. The country's been getting poorer for a long time. Gordon Brown alone dropped it more than brexit.

Let brexit flush the weak hands out of the market and take us to more solid fundamentals. It's a good thing to be lean and independent of the broader EU uncertainties in the coming economic crisis.

[Little stoned kiwi]

Immigrunts, espeically muslom ones (regardless of where born) 99% of whom are child grooming Jihadis / Sharia law
Banana and fruit shape.
"Brussels makes decisions on UK"
I am A WHIETE BRITISH CRIHSITAN MAN WW2 / CRICKET / THE EMPIRE

Stuff like has nothing to do with the real world

I'm sure there are a percentage of people like that, and that they have been used as useful idiots for their votes. But find it difficult to believe there are that many of them to be driving Brexit. There will be a myriad of reasons to leave the EU just as there are to stay - not everyone wants to stay for the same reasons.
Writing off pro-Brexitors as a knuckle dragging, UKIP supporting, football obsessed dragoons is no better than the supposed thinking of the stereo type you've presented.

[F-ZeroOne]

To a degree, yes, you're right. But the pro-Brexit camp, at least their loudest and most prominent supporters, didn't do very much to discourage that image themselves.

[Little stoned kiwi]

Totally. Nigel Farage and his ilk did more harm to the Brexit conversation than good. That's always the way with political discourse, unfortunately.

[tufty]

Writing off pro-Brexitors as a knuckle dragging, UKIP supporting, football obsessed dragoons is no better than the supposed thinking of the stereo type you've presented.

Quite. My parents are not knuckle-dragging, football-obsessed, etc.

And yet, in discussion as to exactly why they helped piss my future down the river, their arguments were exactly those expounded above.

[Little stoned kiwi]

How did they vote in the referendums to join/stay on the 70s?

[tufty]

One voted one way, and one the other.

[IronGiant]

Hell's teeth, there really seems to be no way out of ruining the UK if we can't agree to a transition deal or cancelling brexit. We're all going to destroy ourselves if we leave on WTO terms (which now seem almost unavoidable).

Have a listen to this interview in you want to know what I'm wittering on about -

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/ ... xit-facts/