EU referendum are you in or out

[gumboot]

the UK would still have teething issues as it economically and socially restructures.

Brexcuses.

Are the British being chased out of Spain, yet?

I don't know what I was thinking. If a Briton suffered any racial abuse in Spain they wouldn't know it. It would just be another case of "ignorant foreigners can't speak proper English".

[tufty]

The EU isn't about free-trade from what I've seen, not even within its member states.

You don't seem to have seen very much about the EU, though, do you? The EU (and the EEC before it) provides tariff-free trading between member countries. It's the very definition of free trade between member states.

[Little stoned kiwi]

...apart from the bit where it collects money from member countries and redistributes it in various forms including subsidies.

[gravy]

Well yeah, There's a cost to access but that means being in the club or at least accepting some rules.

You're right, we should be treated like any other country.

The trouble is the electorate have voted on a premise where we'll get special treatment

EDIT;

Probably worth saying that most analysis has EU membership as a net economic benefit to our country.

Personally I'm more at ease with EU priorities on grant distribution (science, infrastructure, longer term projects) than any current governments politically driven short term concerns. I competely understand that YMMV on that though

[tufty]

Probably worth saying that most analysis has EU membership as a net economic benefit to our country.

what the CBI think, for example - http://news.cbi.org.uk/reports/our-glob ... igh-costs/

[Darkflame]

Oddly this sort of thing might help keep us in the EU. I mean, I am still hopeful this result will be reversed.

LOL. Let's all make a mockery of democracy. It's done and dusted there is no way back. You've lost. the leavers one. 51.9 of them in fact, does their votes not count. because the remainders lost. What would your prefer socialism?

Socialism merely means publicly owned/controlled services, its got nothing to do with how democratic something is.

[Dio]

Personally I'm more at ease with EU priorities on grant distribution (science, infrastructure, longer term projects) than any current governments politically driven short term concerns. I competely understand that YMMV on that though

The problem you always run into early on when talking about the EU budget is the CAP of course, which is fucking ridiculous. However, worth noting that Leave didn't mention that one at all, so presumably they aren't actually planning to fix the madness of farming subsidy.

[gravy]

Yep, definitely pros and cons and CAP needs reform.

But overall I'd live with it for more positive aspects of EU grants rather than have that money in the hands of twats soley applying it in the hope of getting back in office.

[snaff]

Oddly this sort of thing might help keep us in the EU. I mean, I am still hopeful this result will be reversed.

LOL. Let's all make a mockery of democracy. It's done and dusted there is no way back. You've lost. the leavers one. 51.9 of them in fact, does their votes not count. because the remainders lost. What would your prefer socialism?

Socialism merely means publicly owned/controlled services, its got nothing to do with how democratic something is.

Capitalists believe that socialism leads to centralisation of power where lack of transparency and corruption undermines democracy.

Socialists believe that capitalism gives power to businesses, and that big business destroys small business, thus centralising power and undermining democracy.

Democrats believe that it's a good idea for two wolves and a sheep to vote on what to have for dinner.

[Istar]

Anyone else from here at the march yesterday? Me and about 50,000 other people walked from Park Lane to Parliament to protest Brexit.

My first demo, at age 48. Not giving up, see? Not going to stand by and watch political stupidity, lies and xenophobia drag this country into a new Dark Age.

I've also officially joined a political Party, the (only) one stating it'll campaign on a Rejoin promise at the next General Election. Hell, maybe I'll even try to become an MP.

Enough talk. Time for action.

[gravy]

Anyone else from here at the march yesterday? Me and about 50,000 other people walked from Park Lane to Parliament to protest Brexit.

My first demo, at age 48. Not giving up, see? Not going to stand by and watch political stupidity, lies and xenophobia drag this country into a new Dark Age.

I've also officially joined a political Party, the (only) one stating it'll campaign on a Rejoin promise at the next General Election. Hell, maybe I'll even try to become an MP.

Enough talk. Time for action.

Maybe they'll do some sort of pledge card guaranteeing they won't renege on their promise like like last time!

Oh hold on...

All power to you though, continued direct poltical involvement is the only thing that enables changed.

Seriously considering taking a more consistent participation myself.

[pogo]

Gavyn Davis has a regular column analysing forecasts for growth etc. Normally rather dry and technical but this time he covers the changes due to the Brexit vote. E.g. here is the forecast for 2017 GDP growth, showing how growth expectations have changed sharply. Free registration to read it in full.


And I mentioned the Swiss dilemma, of their binding referendum on reducing migration + the EU’s unwillingness to let them implement it. The Guardian has a timely piece on it.

EU tells Swiss no single market access if no free movement of citizens

It has suddenly come into focus with the Brexit vote. The Swiss seem to think this will mean the EU will have no time, or be less willing, to find a compromise on Migration. But I think this is wrong: migration, that is Free Movement of People, is a non-negotiable aspect of signing up to the single market. It does not matter how long you have, the EU is not going to budge on this. This is as much true for the UK as Switzerland.

[(o)(o)]

The perfect storm is coming. Migration will increase to the point where controls are not an option. If the EU doesn't address that somehow, nations will break up the EU.

[pogo]

I don’t see migration increasing without limit, or even in the short term as e.g. May has suggested:

we may very well see in the run-up to that, people wanting to come here to the UK before that exit happens

That strikes me as nonsense. People aren’t going to suddenly rush here on the off chance they will be unable to do so after an exit. They are going to wait and see, or delay making plans, so if anything migration will reduce.

Migration from the EU can’t keep growing forever, and is likely to fall sharply, even go into reverse, at some point. Growth in the main countries people are coming from + a recovery in the rest of Europe will reduce the incentive to leave and give them many more places to go. New countries joining could make a difference, except that is not likely any time soon.

Migration from outside the EU is a problem, but not for us with our largely effective border measures, and as we are outside the Schengen area. It might yet cause greater rifts within the EU, though they seem to have found a solution for now with the deal with Turkey.

[Portland]

Have things calmed down yet?