What would signify the arrival of the next games gen 4 you?

koworld · Post by **koworld** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:23 am 0

With all the puff and hyperbole around games hardware right now, I was wondering what thing would make you say 'oh blimey, it's tomorrow today!'

For me it'll be when I play a game like Max Payne or Hitman but the street scenes are thronged with hundreds of pedestrians and the roads are packed with cars. Right now cities don't feel like cities. It's not important to the gameplay as things are (GTAIII is ace, Deus Ex was wonderful) but would present a level of realism that could make an absolute leap in terms of what becomes possible inside the game. Atmosphere, atmosphere, atmosphere.

What's yours? (I might take a crack at pullign some of these into a WotR piece as well - hope that's okay).

Cheers,
Rich

Saint Sandy · Post by **Saint Sandy** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:28 am 0

...a game where you coyld hold non-linear conversations with the pooter....even get in arguments etc.

hang on, I WANT an argument with my computer???!

bloid · Post by **bloid** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:30 am 0

When you are playing something like vice city, run into a house, gun down the occupants, sit on their sofa, and watch streamed tv on their telly

You are right about NPCs. They just seem a bit stilted and sparse at the moment. I think that's what the next gen will bring. When you play a hero character (POP, BG&E), you will feel like the world is struggling alongside you, rather than it all being on your shoulders with everyone else slacking off and whining

Tmuk · Post by **Tmuk** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:34 am 0

Just a much more open structure to games. I like to be able to decide where and when I can start doing what the game wants me to do. Like in the GTA series I suppose, but ultimately, in a game like that, you should be able to live out a life in any way you choose.
Sometimes, because I'ma twat, I like to drive about Vice City stopping at traffic lights and keeping to speed limits, just because it's nice to have the freedom to do that if you want. But it's not enough...

limb_clock · Post by **limb_clock** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:36 am 0

Vib Ribbon 2. THat game is the shiznits.

gilesgoat · Post by **gilesgoat** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:36 am 0

I think the "road to hyperrealism" will be maybe "the road of destruction"
for quite some companies.

Let's face it, hyperrealism and such requires very powerful hardware and
lots of people working behind, maybe more graphic artists than coders.

At the cost of "starting a war"

I say here that to me "all recent games
I've seen they all look the same", put hyper realism, put whatever you
want "dynamics" are more or less the same.

Ideas are missing, it's really a bit like now seeing some movies, they go on
"remakes" or everything is centered often on "special effects" but real
stories real recitation and such is really a bit missing.

Of course NOT always, there are some good things as well and some
people with nice ideas but IMHO the way to hyperrealism will be the way
that will make "only the strongest survive" because of the huge amount of
resources and costs needed to produce and hyperrealistic game.

To say "algos will be the solution", is an utopia .. algos are "one way to
create things" but you still need "a good mind behind and a good artist too"
it really take LOTS more than just thinking that an algo able to generate
thousands of textures with some parameters or such will be "the key" that
will make your game more beautyful and cool looking.

It needs more than this and it needs also someone knowing how to use
well all that.

Playability is really quite sacrificed and poorly studied, the 3D thing really
opened a new world with new challenges for programmers, working with
3D is not working like a traditional 2D game and has still quite some roads
that need to be explored better and studied.

Right now I think many games point a lot on "the shock effect" due to
nice effects and such.

Speaking about effects, after quite some time I am "playing too" with quite
some things I think I can really say that "ok guys, you are faking even
too much" .. it's really more than 12 years I study CG and I can say you
that if someone would like to improve current HWs to incorporate new
(OLD) things there is still LOTS that can be done.

IMHO .. new games should be really MORE "focus on what they have and
what can be done" rather than trying to improve hyperrealism, but really
seems like that majority of people is so used to get amazed by "visuals"
that they consider the game itself "of less importance" I really think that
quite some games are a bit "too easy" or "too complex" .. and a balancing
and care in playability is missing.

Well .. that's this for now, Koworld if you like to take part of what I wrote
for an article on WOTR it would be nice to me .. and if I wish that's really
a subject I'd love to write something about

matt · Post by **matt** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:37 am 0

A different way of playing games. The revolution will not be televised - it will be hand held.

matt

Saint Sandy · Post by **Saint Sandy** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:44 am 0

...to be able to step into one of them thar big battles from Lord of the Rings...and walk around, interact, talk, fight etc

...and have the option should it arrive, of being able to put the ring on.

would you?

limb_clock · Post by **limb_clock** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:45 am 0

oh....

I want to see games REALLY looking like cartoon. ALthough Cel Shading is good in some aspects, i always am disappointed to the backgrounds. I want to see a game where you REALLY ARE a cartoon character. I love cartoons

AS for realism, i could care less. Games are supposed to be an escape from reality and not some ALter Digital Ego place where you can kill as much as people in the most realistic way. If games are supposed to be for fun, why must they obey the laws of physics? Normality is dull.

koworld · Post by **koworld** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:48 am 0

That's what I'm talking about - I'm not saying lets have the faces look nice, I'm saying that I want the hardware power to do things at a different scale. Graphically, Grim Fandango is anti-realism but it's still a world that I'd like to be more inside.

@Limb Clock
I'm not looking for a debate on realism!

grue · Post by **grue** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:48 am 0

limb_clock wrote:oh....

I want to see games REALLY looking like cartoon. ALthough Cel Shading is good in some aspects, i always am disappointed to the backgrounds. I want to see a game where you REALLY ARE a cartoon character. I love cartoons

AS for realism, i could care less. Games are supposed to be an escape from reality and not some ALter Digital Ego place where you can kill as much as people in the most realistic way. If games are supposed to be for fun, why must they obey the laws of physics? Normality is dull.

Couldn't say it better myself

sty · Post by **sty** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:49 am 0

I think for me the Next Generation would be signified by a graphics style that takes more from modern movies than photorealistic realworld.

So I am in a world that has a 'feel' in the same way that a cinematographer achieves 'feel' in the films.

I don't feel I am explaining myself, Pulp Fiction, Star Wars, Alien, The Big Blue, Leon, The Fifth Element, Natural Born Killers, The Matrix, Sense and Sensibility, they are all shot on film yet they all feel different in visual presentation.

Combined with that I would like to feel more in control as I navigate through the gameworld, so additional processing power would stop me needlessly bumping into lampposts etc. I'd love my character to walk over a suspended rubber floor, and it feels in some way that I am actually walking over a suspended rubber floor.

And finally (this is a big wish) the gameplay elements will be so subtle that they drag you into the experience in the same way that a good book suddenly gets you gripped and you can't put it down.

limb_clock · Post by **limb_clock** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:49 am 0

MIT would be thrilled about this topic.

Saint Sandy · Post by **Saint Sandy** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:49 am 0

limb_clock wrote:oh....

I want to see games REALLY looking like cartoon. ALthough Cel Shading is good in some aspects, i always am disappointed to the backgrounds. I want to see a game where you REALLY ARE a cartoon character. I love cartoons

AS for realism, i could care less. Games are supposed to be an escape from reality and not some ALter Digital Ego place where you can kill as much as people in the most realistic way. If games are supposed to be for fun, why must they obey the laws of physics? Normality is dull.

...and gravity just drags me down...

goes to bounce off a wall, Cippy stle, runs into wall and gets a nosebleed.
Damn this pesky reality drive...I want an upgrade!

Anders · Post by **Anders** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:49 am 0

The recent Unreal tech demos, I suppose. Having that in a game would (again) remind me that the future is here. The raytraced Quake 3 movie Slashdot wrote about the other day gave me that feeling too.

I said again, because it's worth remembering that me and my friends couldn't even imagine today's games when we were kids, shoving money into Space Invaders and Donkey Kong cabs. The future is all around us. We have it at our fingertips. That sort of power available for so little. The ability to create your own worlds, characters, mods, etc, and have the world play them.

That's another part of the 'future' for me. Making this sort of 'do-it-yourself' approach even more accessible to gamers and anyone interested. We like to complain about things, but sit down and *think* for a moment. Do we even understand how good we have it?

I could say more, but that would change the direction of thread.