Revitalising the Photo Comps...?

[RiK]

So, in recent months the photo comps have been less and less supported, and in part I guess that's a reflection on the forum being quieter in general, but also I thought maybe it was worth us having a chat about what, if anything, we might do to revitalise them and get a bit more engagement from more people.

I must admit my own enthusiasm for them has waned a lot, mostly as being a more 'serious' photographer, I'm more interested in photography from a technical and artistic perspective. Originally that's how they were promoted, to encourage people to get out and really think about their photography, but recently it seems they've become little more than the 'snap of the month' type of thing, which is fine if that's what people want, but not really something I'm interested in entering.

What do you guys think? It is time to retire the comps, or what can we do to pick up some more interest in them?

[Meow]

I think it's time to retire...shame really...as I always looked forward to take a new picture every mouth. Also b/c most people only visit the front page it get lost. It was on the front page you'd have more traffic and made you'd get more people who knows...This month. I put up an picture that simple isn't good e-nuff....But I thought her eyes in that photo told you something about her. Because I was looking for the right slightly arty autumn snap. Which I haven't found. So far.....

Also maybe YakYak needs more promotion to get some activity on the site.

[RiK]

Also b/c most people only visit the front page it get lost. It was on the front page you'd have more traffic and made you'd get more people who knows...

Well obviously that topic has been done to death now.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if people can't cope with the idea of sub-forums in this day & age, they should take their computer back to the shop and tell them they're too stupid to own technology With the 'view new posts' and 'active topics' links, all the features are there for people to use.

However, perhaps there's some mileage in doing an announcement post as Gaz did with the new music comp to get people to take note, or maybe do one to simply draw attention to the comps in general?

[Chontler]

I blame phones and clickbait for turning everyone into a "photographer".
Not sure why I didn't bother with it myself as I have the gear and live in a beautiful area.....
...well maybe that's not true. Like you say, most photos are just quick snaps. I'm someone who would generally spend a few hours in photoshop and lightroom and it always seemed it wasn't that kind of competition or it wasn't worth it so much if no-one else did.

[RiK]

I'm someone who would generally spend a few hours in photoshop and lightroom and it always seemed it wasn't that kind of competition or it wasn't worth it so much if no-one else did.

Well, that's what it was *supposed* to be, unfortunately the majority of entries were point & shoot, so the creative element kinda fell away, which is why I've kinda lost interest personally as it's just 'snap of the month' rather than creative photography.

[Portland]

Maybe worth a similar mission to link/highlight tune of the month on Bleatings (effectively the landing page for most people, it's my bookmark to be fair.)

Personally, I'm either at work or wrangling 2 smalls all the time these days, so anything I get is most likely to be camera phone pics, although I try to get something on subject and well composed and exposed (camera phones are getting better at allowing you a degree of control these days.)

<edit> in massive irony, I was about to pop a pic up and Photobucket is down - lol.

[PFVA]

I agree that maybe it's time to retire this comp.

There is lots of places on the web nowadays for people who want to play with pics, from just snaps to art photography.

Who knows after a long vacation maybe people will want to do it again.

[KlaxonCow]

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if people can't cope with the idea of sub-forums in this day & age, they should take their computer back to the shop and tell them they're too stupid to own technology With the 'view new posts' and 'active topics' links, all the features are there for people to use.

That's one perspective. Here's another.

It's not stupidity nor a lack of features, it's a time management / convenience thing.

I covered this before in the "website problems" sub-forum - you see, I can cope with the idea of sub-forums! - when the email notifications stopped working for a while. The reason why the loss of the email notifications was a serious bother for me was that I try to operate, as far as I'm able, a "don't call us, we'll call you" approach to most of the web.

You also do programming, RiK, so I can explain it the easy way. It's the difference between polling and blocking.

You're waiting for the user to hit space. Now, you could go into an indefinite loop of "while (space not pressed);" with your program taking up 100% CPU in constantly calling the "has the user hit space yet?" API over and over and over again. Like a kid in the back of the car repeatedly asking "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?".

Or the other approach is blocking. The OS provides a blocking "GetMessage" API and, when the user hits a key, it sends "KeyDown" and "KeyUp" events. So your program calls "GetMessage" and blocks. It goes to sleep. It's taken off the scheduler's list of active tasks. It stops taking up any CPU time. When the user hits space, this generates a hardware interrupt. This wakes up the CPU if it's sleeping. The operating system packages this into a "KeyDown" event. It wakes up the program with the keyboard focus that's gone to sleep on the "GetMessage" blocking API and delivers it this new event. The program deals with this and then, when it's done, it goes back to sleep on the "GetMessage" API again.

By the kid in the back of the car analogy, the kid gets a bit older and realises the more efficient approach to this problem is to ask the driver "can you tell me when we're getting near? Thanks" and then they're free to do other things. Like play their Nintendo DS or go to sleep.

The email notifications are blocking. I declare my interest to the forum software by hitting "subscribe topic" or it's implicit that I subscribe when I post a reply, then I go off and do other things. Like, you know, the job that I'm supposed to be doing anyway. If and when anyone replies to this thread, the forum software will send a notification. I click on the link and catch up.

A "don't call us, we'll call you" approach. It's a more efficient use of time, when you're able to do it properly.

This is a factor in why Facebook is evil. Because they purposefully force you to poll their website regularly to see if anyone's posted something new, as they want you to keep coming back again and again - "Are we there yet? Are we there yet?" - because every time you return, they can serve you more ads. They're perfectly able to do notifications if they wanted to - if you don't go to Facebook for a while, they get worried that they've lost you and send you "since the last time you logged in, you've had 5 pokes, 15 messages... blah-blah-blah" - but they deliberately take the "polling" approach, where they're making millions upon millions of people are just sit there hitting "refresh" on their Facebook feeds all day long, because then they can cynically serve more ads to make more money that way.

Whereas, with YouTube, I've got RSS feeds to the channels I watch regularly. Thunderbird checks the feed regularly on my behalf and I get a nice list of new videos to watch when, after the day's work has been done, I've got time to just sit down and be entertained. I also get a nice list of notifications from this forum to go through.

That's the counter argument. It's not stupidity, it's just trying to be efficient with your time.

After all, what are computers absolutely amazing at? Yes, doing those all tedious repetitive tasks for you!

However, perhaps there's some mileage in doing an announcement post as Gaz did with the new music comp to get people to take note, or maybe do one to simply draw attention to the comps in general?

Bearing in mind what I've just said, consider that making a new thread each time breaks getting new notifications.

If there was a single thread - like gravy's announcement with a sticky at the top of Bleatings - for all the competitions and what you'd then do is just drop a "New photo competition for November!" or "December's music competition theme is Bond theme tunes" post, with a link to that month's competition thread in it, into that announcement thread. Anyone who's subscribed to that thread (or who's ever replied in there and has "notify me when a reply is posted" ticked) would get a nudge reminding them each time.

People do other things. People forget.

It's not what you're saying is invalid, it's that it's a bit unfair. You and gravy are moderators. It's greatly appreciated that you guys have, indeed, committed your time to keep this place ticking over - and to running these competitions as well - but it's not entirely reasonable to presume that everyone's as able to be at the same level of time commitment as your good selves. If you see what I'm saying.

[RiK]

Funny you mention time, and yet you write the longest to;dr; posts of anyone on the forum.

Re your previous post btw Notifications work just fine for me for new posts in subscribed forums. I also use the 'view new posts' link as traffic on here isn't that high these days so it's quite literally just a couple of seconds to skim that list. The tools are all there for people to use should they wish.

[KlaxonCow]

Funny you mention time, and yet you write the longest to;dr; posts of anyone on the forum.

Well, I didn't say that I didn't have the time. But that people in general might not.

I was arguing the principle, on behalf of the wider forum, not my own personal circumstances.

The tools are all there for people to use should they wish.

Yes, totally. As I said, I don't think what you're saying is invalid in any way.

But, you know, you tell everyone that the tools are all there. They don't use them. You tell everyone that the tools are all there again. They still don't use them. So you tell them again. Still not being used.

There is surely a point somewhere in this pattern, where you recognise that this strategy is not really working?

[RiK]

However, perhaps there's some mileage in doing an announcement post as Gaz did with the new music comp to get people to take note, or maybe do one to simply draw attention to the comps in general?

Bearing in mind what I've just said, consider that making a new thread each time breaks getting new notifications.

Well, obviously we need a new thread per month/topic or it would get ridiculous, but one global announcement to get people who are stuck in 'nowhere exists outside of bleatings' mode wouldn't hurt.

But, you know, you tell everyone that the tools are all there. They don't use them. You tell everyone that the tools are all there again. They still don't use them. So you tell them again. Still not being used.

There is surely a point somewhere in this pattern, where you recognise that this strategy is not really working?

To be honest, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make!

It's not a 'strategy' it's just stating a fact.

Thousands of forums all over the net work this way. It makes no sense to lump everything all in to one big pile, that just creates more noise and puts *more* effort on people to sort through and find the stuff they're interested in.

Ever computing device that people use on a daily basis has some form of filing system and folder structure to make life easier. If people can't be bothered to use it, I really don't know what the solution is. I guess we just have to accept that those people will never engage with anything outside their limited bubble. But also, they can't really complain about others using the system as intended.

[GoatFoam]

In my case it is pathological business. I want to enter the comps, but have only picked up the camera about twice in the last month.

A bit of a bugger as I just bought a new one.

[tufty]

I dunno. I'm no photographer, lord knows, but I can tell a decent photo when RiK takes it. So nothing I ever post is liable to be more than a snapshot

[RiK]

Thing is, again, it's not about fancy kit or photoshops skills etc. It's about having a good eye for a shot.

If we look back at a few of the topics from when the comps were in full swing for example:

Unusual Angles: http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=84651

Creative Composition: http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=85444

Open Spaces: http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=85086

[k345y]

Thing is, again, it's not about fancy kit or photoshops skills etc. It's about having a good eye for a shot.

If we look back at a few of the topics from when the comps were in full swing for example:

Unusual Angles: http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=84651

Creative Composition: http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=85444

Open Spaces: http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=85086

It's these very types of shots that put people off posting their pics.
They're obviously done by folks with more than a casual interest. It can feel quite intimidating to post a pic beside accomplished snappers.
I actually feel disheartened when viewing the comp thread at times as it reaffirms how shite I am. What chance you got against pros and serious amatuers.

You should keep the comps going but have different entry levels such as...
Commercial

Pro
Dedicated amatuer
Amatuer
Learner
Fuckwit that's never going to be good but enjoys trying....


so forth.
As it stands the whole thread is grouped into one huge dynamic.